Battery tender for agm battery via jump posts advised?

[wpoll]

Originally Posted by andrewwynn

Looking at the motor it makes perfect sense how the starter current spikes as it wears out: the commutator bars get shorted so more than one field will be energised at once!


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This would also explain the low torque and why once it spins around to a better commutator section, it's slightly better. Fits the symptoms...

[omodos]

Originally Posted by wpoll

It may be that the original unit can be re-built but I guess time and labour costs may preclude that option.

*edit* Depends on the failure mode too...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdNQuPS0U6w

You are right recon of my existing one I feel leaves open window of error when it comes to eliminating problem of laboured start, going for a new one is about twice the cost of getting in reconditioned anway


My options are on new ones:

recon the existing denso 120euros


NEW
valeo 340 (not in stock bosch similar price)
denso 254 euros
italian (probably magnetti marelli) 230
Herth & Buss 135 (never heard of em but seller who sells denso says they are german, doubt it probably chinese , not too sure what isnt these daYS)


a reconditioned denso 200


whatsmore all have the same 1 year warranty


I am really tempted to go for the cheaper one just in case the starter is not an issue and again I throw away more money in this process of elimination .....already done so with battery whilst my 5 year old bosch may not have been at its best changed it.


https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/her...s-7560726.html

[omodos]

Originally Posted by wpoll

This would also explain the low torque and why once it spins around to a better commutator section, it's slightly better. Fits the symptoms...

Well monday sees me getting a new starter installed, the tests suggested in posts appreciated greatly and confirmed as sound, no more than 0.5v drop in starting voltage are confirmed in delco remy tips on below url. IF only I could get hold of decent amp clamp again would be great to see amp draw on cranking....@wpoll hope you are right that it ain't a ground issue as I am getting current fine(last amp clamp test showed upwards of 392amps when starting car)


Ok will report back monday



Tech Tip: Diagnosing Starter Cranking Problems | Delco Remy

[wpoll]

Looking forward to hearing about a positive resolution on this one! :-)

And I'm still looking for that darm 'scope meter....

[omodos]

Mate...should have got round to doing this much sooner...your x at 6c sounded better than mine ever has even with a brand new battery and at temp of 23c or so.....pretty adamant now its starter...there is no way it can be a bad connection somewhere ....if it was i cant explain the handful of times i got a near no start and had starter spinning quite a while in attempt to start followed immediately by a very very fast spin of starter and startup. Tells me something is snagging or worn...anyhow monday i will find out ,tomorrow i will pick this berthundhuss starter up...gamble but i'll keep old denso see if i can open it up and see.

[andrewwynn]

If you measured 392A that's 100% proof failed starter. I can't remember if that was you.


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[omodos]

Originally Posted by andrewwynn

If you measured 392A that's 100% proof failed starter. I can't remember if that was you.


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Andrewwynn ok here is my sin...i did what i thought was a correct amp clamp test but checking out others done online they mention disabling engine management...basically not allowing engine to fire up...i didnt do this i placed clamp around cable near battery with x5 off started it and i got 392+ amps yup but the x5 actually started so not sure the high amps could have been the fact that glow plugs could have drawn current too.

[andrewwynn]

No chance glow plugs add 150A. I think that a part of why diesel takes more current might be the glow plugs. My understanding is that the diesel is supposed to pull about 250A vs the 3.0 about 200A not sure the V8. That's not just the starter but the total draw from the battery.

That said: I'm thinking the B+ cable is not responsible for the glow plugs but that goes down the right side power cable.


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[omodos]

Ok fella thanks...so my way of using amp clamp was not totally flawed? Anyhow seeing where the 250a and over is not too healthy...IF the way i measured my draw was ok...and i got say 300amps peak 300a x battery voltage should give a power figure that should not be higher than rating of starter ...correct?so 300 x12v or 300x 10v still gives a pull that i cant see how a 2kw rated starter can handle

[omodos]

Originally Posted by wpoll

Looking forward to hearing about a positive resolution on this one! :-)

And I'm still looking for that darm 'scope meter....

You will not believe this,popped down to car parts place, was handed the box that was kosher so to speak, said herth+buss on it, opened it saw a starter in it that had bosch stamped in the alloy body and the shaft had made in germany on it (on top of the solenoid there was a silver label specific to the herth+buss product!alarm bells started ringing)....hmmmm gave it the once over saw that the bolts and most of the body had black spray over it, main body was sprayed nice, on the bolts black spray just didn't seem right.


I queried them over this and they said that's the way it is and the firm herth and buss doesn't actually make starters(rubbish I thought)....mechanic passing by said yeah thats the way it is...paid walked out, and queried one of the employees outside , he said looks new (hmm yeah they sprayed it I told him) if it wasn't you would see the damage in the philipps screws on the solenoid etc! I looked closely and one was damaged but sprayed over....took it back and got a refund!


Complained to head office (not in same town as me)who got another one out of stock and said there were no references to bosch on the one they were looking at...and no signs of shoddy spray work....told him mate someone has ripped you off, purchased item, taken off labeling from new item and taken new item, put their old one back in box with label (and sprayed it) and gone for a refund! either way they are sending the 'new' one down next week but there is no way on earth unless i see it come out of sealed box be sure it is actually new! even the website that refers to starter shows the actual image as having denso on the body that I am sure is some sort of trading standards violation....so in a right mind to get existing one reconditioned it if i can.