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  #1  
Old 03-08-2019, 11:04 PM
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4.6is Advice on Transmission

Hey all,

I have read my ass off about this tranny before posting, but just need some advice since this will probably get costly.

I have 161k miles on the (i assume) original trans. Car is an '03 4.6is.

For the 30k of miles I put on it, it has always been rough shifting into first from rapid deceleration. Only when fully warm. First thing i did was tranny fluid and filter... Local shop said theres no problem. Fail

Few days ago it started to be very slow at changing gears(all gears) from the selector. Instant when cold, 2-3+ seconds when warm.

Today it is now slipping and harshly engaging 1st from a dead stop. All is good if I stay moving.

Transmission INPA values show everything normal except temps are rising to 100C and I've read 95C should be max.

One error in memory, but nothing on dash. Couldn't find much info on it.

Space to do a rebuild is difficult at the moment. Don't really want to pay a shop to screw it up or not fix it correctly. Anyone have a reputable trans shop familiar with these in PNW Eugene->Portland?

Anyhow gonna park it and mull over my options. Thanks for any help/advice.
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  #2  
Old 03-09-2019, 12:48 AM
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I’ve got an 05 with the ZF trans so I don’t know a ton about the 5 speeds but the first thing I would do is pick up a decent code scanner from a local parts store and confirm that you actually have no codes.

From there I would pull the pan and make sure the filter is seated all the way against the valve body and that the fluid is full - at the correct temperature and that there are no shavings on the magnets. I’m sure one of the guys with more info than I can help steer you in the right direction and you can probably check with your local BMW dealer for what temperature they recommend checking for full, I know in the ZF trannies there is a very narrow range before you have to let it cool and start over.

If whoever did your service just filled it, plugged it and backed it out, there’s a decent chance that it isn’t really full.


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Old 03-09-2019, 03:35 PM
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Your 4.6is is fitted with the ZF 5HP24 transmission. 1st gear uses a sprag rather than a clutch for engagement when in ‘automatic’ mode, so a 2-1 rollout shift should feel completely seamless as the vehicle effectively freewheels in 1st, but the sprag is by-passed by the F brake in ‘manual’ mode. Can I ask if you are you operating the transmission in manual mode rather than in ‘D’ when you notice the issue?







The transmission uses an oil-to-water cooler so the fluid operates at around engine coolant temperature. 100°C is therefore normal. The overheat message will be displayed if the fluid temperature creeps much above 130°C and, before then, upshifts would be inhibited by the controller to keep the engine speed (and therefore the pump speed) high, to maximise flow through the cooler. Having said that, overheating fluid and too high a tickover speed, are the most common causes of a lumpy 2-1 downshift in ‘D’ (automatic mode).

Phil
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Old 03-09-2019, 07:47 PM
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So once upon a time, I too decided to do my trans oil swap. Some time after that, I started having huge problem shifting into R when trans was warm. I was losing my mind. 3 sec reverse. Did some research and concluded it was the shift solenoids. So I ordered all the shift solenoids for the valve body. Took it out. Got the solenoids out and guess what I found. Mother forking gasket material from the last trans filter change. The pink looking gasket shit around the stupid filter neck. Anyway, since I was in soo deep and had new solenoids I went ahead and changed them. Problems gone and shifts like it’s supposed too. Mine is the 6 speed by the way.
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  #5  
Old 03-11-2019, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickGT1 View Post
gasket material from the last trans filter change
Your new gasket fell apart? I'm contemplating my 1st ATF change. What would you do differently?
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  #6  
Old 03-11-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRPhil View Post
Your 4.6is is fitted with the ZF 5HP24 transmission. 1st gear uses a sprag rather than a clutch for engagement when in ‘automatic’ mode, so a 2-1 rollout shift should feel completely seamless as the vehicle effectively freewheels in 1st, but the sprag is by-passed by the F brake in ‘manual’ mode. Can I ask if you are you operating the transmission in manual mode rather than in ‘D’ when you notice the issue?

The transmission uses an oil-to-water cooler so the fluid operates at around engine coolant temperature. 100°C is therefore normal. The overheat message will be displayed if the fluid temperature creeps much above 130°C and, before then, upshifts would be inhibited by the controller to keep the engine speed (and therefore the pump speed) high, to maximise flow through the cooler. Having said that, overheating fluid and too high a tickover speed, are the most common causes of a lumpy 2-1 downshift in ‘D’ (automatic mode).

Phil
Thanks for the detailed response Phil. The rough downshift only happens in "D". When in manual mode it shifts 2-1 in what I believe to be normal shifting.

I think I will check fluid level, then drop pan and do filter/fluid/mechatronic sleeve all while im there. Im just trying to determine if it's worth my time and a couple hundred bucks if the experienced gurus think its rebuild time anyway...
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:34 PM
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So I checked the fluid today. I pulled the fill plug at 34C (on INPA) and at 35C there was a steady stream of fluid trickling out. Seems overfilled based on what I've read.

That said, the fluid is much more brown than red. Smells like it could be a little burnt.

Also I've noticed if I stay in manual and out of 1st all together, the car drives great. If I try to shift into 1st in manual mode, it doesn't do anything then defaults to 2nd. This definitely makes me think something is broke internally.


Is this worth my time to change the filter and fluid? It was done by a local shop 30k miles ago...

Should I just start looking for a replacement 5hp24?
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  #8  
Old 03-22-2019, 07:10 PM
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It’s very difficult to overfill a 5HP24. Did you definitely have the engine running while the level was being checked?

If you find red fluid in a 5HP24 you’ve got a big problem. New ZF Lifeguard Fluid 5/Mobil ATF LT71141/Pentosin ATF1 is straw/honey coloured.

Does your transmission operate fine in reverse (just to confirm that the F brake is functioning correctly)?

An occasional issue on the 5HP24 is a crack in the upper valve block in the SV-1 to KV-F circuit. This causes leakage which drops the hydraulic pressure allowing the A-clutch to disengage when the fluid is hot. A typical symptom is that it feels like neutral has been selected when you’re in 1st gear but the gear then engages sharply when the engine speed is raised (i.e. as the pump speed increases the flow exceeds the leakage allowing pressure to build in the clutch). It may be worth dropping the valve body assembly, just to check for a crack in the upper valve block?









Phil
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