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Old 10-03-2020, 01:11 PM
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Ticking noise caused by worn valve tips?.

Hey ppl,

I have the classic ticking noise for a while. I have done many repairs including the timing chain guides and lifter rebuilding and the ticking is still there and loud.

So, I opened up the engine once again (also hoping to replace the valve guides because of spark plug oil fouling on cylinder 6) to check the valve springs and did not see any damage yet. What I noticed was, some of the valve tips were worn. I measured a couple of them and the worn ones are shorter closer to 1 mm. Basically the round part of the valve tip seems to be worn on some of them.

Now, the question of course is, would that cause the ticking? What would be the best solution? Take the head off and put new valves or just get a rebuilt cylinder head. Is there any easier solution other than living with that ticking hoping that it would not cause major problems?

I am also including a photo to give you an idea. Check out the left (worn) valve and the other that looks ok..

Thanks,

Ozzie
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  #2  
Old 10-03-2020, 02:09 PM
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Ticking noise caused by worn valve tips?.

Call me crazy (and someone may) but I wouldn’t expect those to tick as the spring doesn’t put any more pressure on the worn valve as it does an unworn valve. Though, and I know this doesn’t help, a worn valve could move further into the valve seat, though I still wouldn’t expect that to cause a tick.

Hmm, I have seen the springs on the intermediate levers move ever so slightly out of their “standard” position and cause a tick - had a buddies do that right after we did his VSS and it ticked like madness... pulled the cover and every looked good so he ran some oil additives through it, which didn’t help just as I told him it wouldn’t, so we pulled the VC again and really inspected things. What we found was that the springs on the central most intermediate levers had “shifted” sideway la ever so slightly causing the spring to “click/tick” as the lever came off tension.

Keep us posted as you go and good luck


EDIT - I would also add that I’ve seen Ford 302 engines with actually cracks in the valve face and stem that were so shot they should have been broken, that didn’t make a sound...

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Old 10-03-2020, 02:18 PM
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Hey Purplefade,

Thanks for your quick response. What I thought was, since those valve stems became slightly shorter and they are in direct contact with lifters which are being pushed by the camshaft lobes (I measured most of them and did not see big wear on any lobes), a minor space between the lifter and the lobe would cause the tick.

I did not take the springs out yet but I did not notice any looseness on any valve stems..

Cheers,

Ozzie
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Old 10-03-2020, 02:34 PM
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I think it would usually be just the opposite, if the valve or valve seat was worn it would allow the valve to move further in to the seat, not causing a gap between it and the rocker arm and lifter. “Easy” test, pick a handful of valves or the ones you see wear on and move the engine in partial cycles and try to insert say a spark plug gapper (or other slimline measuring device) between the rocker arm, valve steam and lifter. I know you said you’ve rebuilt the lifters but historically a “tick/tap” is usually caused by a stuck lifter or liter bleeding oil pressure off to quickly.


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Old 10-03-2020, 03:18 PM
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What I have noticed after some online research also is the ticking issue is almost never solved permanently by repairing / replacing lifters but a cylinder head change. That brings camshafts and valves (and springs etc.) into question as well as blocked oil lines inside the cylinder heads..

Here is a link about some solutions to ticking issues..

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...t=13504&page=1

That is from e90 posting (not e53 m62 4.4) but there are a lot of similarities..

Cheers,

Ozzie
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Old 10-03-2020, 03:22 PM
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Btw, in my case we are talking about the tip of the valves, not the valve seats or the bottom of the valves. the lifter is sitting right on top of the tip and if the tip is worn it 'may' leave space between the camshaft lobe and the lifter. I will definitely follow your suggestion and see if there is any space between camshaft lobe and the lifter resulted by the valve tip wear though..

Thanks again,

Ozzie
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Old 10-03-2020, 03:33 PM
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Worn valve should push harder on lifter but still could be lifter related. If the lifter has a favored position it may not compress quite enough.

I would try both thicker and thinner oil.

On the N52 BMW has a procedure to reduce the tick that basically is keep the revs high under power for 30 minute (eg use m/s to hold to 1 gear lower). I would try the same procedure on both higher and lower viscosity oil.
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Old 10-03-2020, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
Worn valve should push harder on lifter but still could be lifter related. If the lifter has a favored position it may not compress quite enough.

I would try both thicker and thinner oil.

On the N52 BMW has a procedure to reduce the tick that basically is keep the revs high under power for 30 minute (eg use m/s to hold to 1 gear lower). I would try the same procedure on both higher and lower viscosity oil.

Hey Andrew,

I have already tried those options and they did not fix the problem unfortunately.

I have tried Purplefade's method and found out there is no space between camshaft bores and any of the lifters at any turning point so that is not the problem either.

I have checked all the lifters once again and they all look good. They are full of oil and none of them looked stuck. (They are hard to compress because they are full of oil).

I will work on replacing all the valve stem seals next week. Maybe I can see something once the springs are out..

Thanks,

Ozzie
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Last edited by turquise1; 10-03-2020 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 10-03-2020, 05:06 PM
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One thing I am noticing is a lot of thick dirt particles (like small pieces of mud) in the oil in there which makes me think those thin oil lines maybe partially or fully clogged. Would it be possible to clean those out (maybe with pressurized air or something)?

Thanks,

Ozzie
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Old 10-03-2020, 06:46 PM
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When I did my VSS I used carb cleaner and the thin red “straw” to blow mine out. Once I did that I ran hot water and dawn dish soap through them and soaked them in hot water, gave them a good flush and then sprayed a little penetrating oil through them just to make sure I didn’t have residue

Crazy question, but it isn’t an overly loud injector cycling (I know a stretch, but I’m dying to hear what you find out).


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