Can't Sync Keys

[oldskewel]

Originally Posted by eskirvin

I'm actually PACE certified in through-hole soldering and board repair, so it might be I'm more of a brain surgeon than the fellow you suggest. I don't mind you assuming though.

Now, Wyn saying I don't have experience with this particular situation is correct, which is what I came to these boards for. If we assume it isn't a "key" issue, what else could it be? Reading Scott's site, he says when programming the keys that only the doors matter for the purpose or programming. Leaning towards the FZV or maybe even just a fuse issue. Is there anything INPA and such could tell me about the issue?

Thanks again guys for the help. I don't want this issue to persist and have the physical lock break from over use.

OK, you're probably overqualified for this job.

I did the battery replacement on two of my fobs, very successfully. Link with all the things I learned while doing that is listed several posts up. I don't do any of this stuff for a living. Self taught in all these repairs I do.

Have no charging problems at all with my fobs. And my key solution was to buy 3x used genuine BMW diamond keys on eBay for $45 total, cut off the key blades, and pair them with valet keys bought from an online BMW dealer for about $40 each - with 3 kids I figured one or more would get lost, but they're all still here.

If you believe all the doubters on here, you may think I'm making this up, but it is 100% possible. Easy in fact if you have a particular set of skills. So if you do have those skills, I'll say to ignore the naysayers. I had no problems at all opening up the keys. If anything, the most advanced secret technology that may be causing others to fail, vs. being easy for me, was that I knew I should use a utility knife with a brand new blade and a steady hand. No problems at all.

Not sure what PACE is, but it sounds good. Back in the day I was once actually a PACE instructor on a US Navy aircraft carrier. We spent some time right in your neighborhood, in fact. I was a Computer Science Professor - in the Navy, PACE means Program for Afloat College Education, where the crew can earn college credits by taking classes in their spare time on the ship. Great program, but I'm guessing your PACE is something else.

Regarding the sunroof counting as a door or not, I'll suggest that even if it does not "count," the fact that you've got a *problem* with the locking control system may be causing things not to work. I was thinking about going out to my x5 as a test for you, to see if I can reprogram keys, having no problems, but leaving the sunroof open. But then I realized that if it worked, it would be a confirmation of the sunroof not counting as a door (for me, at least), but would not confirm that is your problem.

I assume INPA would be very helpful for you. As I mentioned, I used Foxwell and PASoft BMW Scanner 1.4.0. I've got some fairly detailed info somewhere on this site about that repair. One interesting thing I just remembered is that the two different scanners gave very different sets of information / faults / tests. But the definitive thing was when Foxwell told me the driver's door was open when it was actually closed. With that clear info, I electrically swapped in (just plugged in the connector with the inner door panel off, not actually doing the DLA replacement yet) my original, electrically good / mechanically cracking DLA and had instant success with everything.

I would not do any worrying about the keyless entry until you have the central locking / alarm / sunroof open issues taken care of. If your only problem was the keys not programming, I'd say to look into the keys, but these other symptoms indicate a deeper problem that will prevent the keys from working even if the keys are good.

If you want to guess at an answer and drill (figuratively, not literally ) into it, you could try to find the limit switch (or upstream wiring) that indicates the sunroof is open or closed. Somehow rig that (make it a closed or open circuit as needed) to make it look like the sunroof is always closed. That alone might make everything work (i.e., you would then be able to program the keys).

[eskirvin]

Originally Posted by oldskewel

pair them with valet keys bought from an online BMW dealer for about $40 each

How'd you utilize the valet keys? I'm assuming the inductive coil for the coded start is somewhere in the valet key.

[andrewwynn]

The DIY batteries have Solder tabs wooded on so it's not a difficult job for somebody that has soldering skill however you won't have replacement button switches or experience so @UAL assessment is correct in that's the best bet. I would prob buy an actual key from the online dealer that sells real keys for a second key.

I'm saying literally that is what I would do as I'm planning to order one soon so I can do the reflow/button switch/ battery replace on my only key which remote stopped working about 18 months ago.

I have read not exaggerating over a dozen similar threads where the final result is a dealer key.

In those threads, I can estimate about a 15:1 ratio of didn't to did work with non dealer solutions and the :1 examples are where the EWS hardware is removed to pair with a new key or the guts are swapped to a new key. The only other option I've seen with solid success is cutting the blade off an eBay key to use as a separate remote.

Not saying you won't resolve this issue but I think your car is stuck in a mode where you can't program keys likely do to the open roof.

In that case a new dealer key will still not resolve your issue there problem is you don't know if your primary key battery is functional or the remote is broken on it so you have no control.

[andrewwynn]

I have some experience cutting open two of my keys to reflow and replace one of the batteries.

I was successful in both keys even repairing the one I drilled through a trace.

That said after working about two years one was lost and the other stopped working.

I can't risk reflow again on my only key so I'll be getting a factory key when I get tax return then I will open up my key and reflow it again.

You should check the battery on your primary key then measure it while pressing each button to confirm the button switches are working.

Then: figure out if the roof window switch is your problem you can maybe jumper the switch to convince the car it's closed. (odds are that will be tricky BMW uses hall effect sensors not micro switches usually.

The clown nose is the red hemisphere on the bottom of the rearview mirror and when alarm is set the nose flashes.

You can confirm if the alarm is working a couple ways:

1. Open hood, press the hood switch, lock the door with key (helper), release hood switch. That should set off alarm.

2. Leave a door or trunk open, lock driver door with key, close door. That should make the corner lights all flash to confirm alarm set.

I'm pretty sure alarm will set with roof window open so unsure that will help you I'm thinking monitor the roof open sensor and open/close a couple times see if you can set it to close and start key sync.

[eskirvin]

I should be able to take a look at this again this weekend. The sunroof showing as open or potentially the FZV seem the most likely candidates, but I'll spend a little time retracing my steps as well. Thanks again for the knowledgeable advice from all of those who've given it.

[wpoll]

FWIW, I think the EWS induction RF field and comms signal is a lot lower than 315/433MHz (which is used for the remote fob radio) - more like 125kHz or something.

[oldskewel]

Originally Posted by wpoll

FWIW, I think the EWS induction RF field and comms signal is a lot lower than 315/433MHz (which is used for the remote fob radio) - more like 125kHz or something.

Good to know. I assumed it would just use the same carrier as the remote fob, since it's already there, and the EWS just needs a little coded signal. That's maybe one of the details in Qsilver7's figures, which are always very informative when I can see them. And I can believe that whatever BMW did, it was well done, and for a good reason here.

Another general comment on the keys - it is amazing how much confusing, changing, and sometimes wrong info is out there. If I did not have these valet keys in hand and working, I might not know or believe they exist.

When I bought them from an online BMW dealer - thebmwminipartstore.com - (order placed over the phone after emailing scans of the registration and my driver's license) there was some confusion / misunderstanding when I ordered them. I did not want valet keys, I wanted what I now understand to be the "master" key (although the valet keys are fine - I just can't lock/unlock the glove box with them, and there is no light, which is a plus for me), and thought that's what I'd get. And the valet key is actually better for my needs due to having no battery, completely solid, impervious to water, etc.

But this is what I got. I was going to post the part number + the superseded one, but doing a quick google on them, I have doubts that they are right. So basically, watch out, be prepared for confusion, photographs should be helpful.

EDIT - I just checked, and these are the two keys on that site I bought my valet keys from. Obviously the $170 one is the "diamond key." No confusion about that one, but ... The other one is called a valet key there. Shown in the figure but not offered for sale looks like what my understanding would call a "master key." I think pricing was around $140 and $40 when I bought mine in late 2014.

It says there, "Plastic Valet Key." What I got clearly has a plastic head and a metal blade. I have heard legends of true plastic keys with plastic blades that are supposedly delicate and not intended for repeated use. The plastic-head/metal-blade valet keys I got are probably the toughest keys available.

https://www.thebmwminipartstore.com/...86-66126955748

https://www.thebmwminipartstore.com/...ey-51217127047

[andrewwynn]

Good info especially if you can pull the ews chip out of valet or master key. You can buy eBay keys designed to port over the chip. Also I had assumed the frequency was the same because I think it uses the same pickup coil as charging for the ews but having it dofrent would reduce odds it would have interference.

[wpoll]

You need a much lower RF frequency for the charging induction field - a 315/433Mhz is too high in frequency to provide much power for charging and powering the EWS circuit. The 125kHz frequency is commonly used on door access systems etc. (Wiegand). And electric toothbrush chargers!

Re. the various keys - a picture is worth 1000 (of my) words! I have a standard "diamond" 433MHz key, plus one of the Illuminated Universal Keys, as shown on the left in this image...



The plastic "Valet" key is on the right?

*edit* I just found something that calls the left hand key above the "Valet" key and the plastic one on the right as a "Wallet" key.

[oldskewel]

Here's my valet key, with the cut-off diamond key fob.

It has the functionality of a valet key in that it does only the minimum needed to valet the car - unlock the door and start the car. It does not unlock the glove box. So I can believe it really should be called a valet key.

To determine if other keys could / should be called valet keys, I think the simple test is whether it opens the glove box. As I recall, it has an extra part on the key that prevents it from even fitting in the glove box key slot.

I think the right-side key in @wpoll's post is:
- not the valet key
- would make sense to be called a wallet key
- I expect it can at the least do the functions of a valet key
- Appears to fit the legend I referred to earlier of an all plastic (except the enclosed circuit) key that is not designed for extended usage.
- It may be what I've seen called a "service key", with PN 51218213932

The "illuminated universal" key fits the functional description (fully functional + light) of what I had found called a "master" key (if we are allowed to say that on here) with a PN of 51218213909.

All info and part numbers here should be suspect, but here are more PNs to look up and confirm if you like. And then still doubt them. This info is all at least 5 years old.
51218213931 - Spare key. Valet key. superseded to 51217124770

51218236594 - EWS III key (per the bmw mini parts store.com - shows …931 superseded to this) [no idea what that means]

66126955750 - Diamond key (not the official name, but what everyone calls it). Master Key with remote control. Universal Key with remote control.