Yet Another 3.0 Head Gasket Thread

[Effduration]

Originally Posted by Russianblue

lots of news. mostly bad.

.......here's where the bad part starts.

1) this morning i saw that it's leaking oil directly from the head gasket on the front right corner.

2) it's eating coolant. same problem it went into the shop for. after you drive it and let it cool, the top radiator hose gets sucked flat.

3) i am pretty sure there is steam coming out of the exhaust.

I am sorry to hear all this...This is pretty unusual.

Coolant left over in the exhaust from previous overheat could be causing smoke. I would confirm you are getting coolant in cylinders by swabbing cylinders one morning after running the day before.

Oil leaking from head gasket at front right (passenger side) corner? That is pretty unusual. First off the oil is not under pressure in that area...that area has gravity oil drains to bring oil back to the pan. There are only the M8 skinny bolts in the corners...but they are of different lengths (left and right) did you use the right one? Any chance it stripped?

And you did the proper head bolt torque? 30 ft-lbs then a 90 degree and another 90 degree in proper order?

[Russianblue]

Definitely torqued the head to spec. And I have a witness, lol! Everything held fine. Nothing stripped. Now, i didn't use a Torque angle gauge but i was pretty damn precise with my 90's.

When I say front right, I should clarify. I mean on the driver's side and the first full size head bolt on Cylinder 1. I'll check it again to make sure it's not the vanos or something but it seemed pretty clearly that first head bolt.

[oldskewel]

Originally Posted by Effduration

I am sorry to hear all this...This is pretty unusual.

Coolant left over in the exhaust from previous overheat could be causing smoke. I would confirm you are getting coolant in cylinders by swabbing cylinders one morning after running the day before.

Oil leaking from head gasket at front right (passenger side) corner? That is pretty unusual. First off the oil is not under pressure in that area...that area has gravity oil drains to bring oil back to the pan. There are only the M8 skinny bolts in the corners...but they are of different lengths (left and right) did you use the right one? Any chance it stripped?

And you did the proper head bolt torque? 30 ft-lbs then a 90 degree and another 90 degree in proper order?

I agree with all this, especially the "sorry to hear this" part

To add a couple of ideas:

On the oil leak - could it be coming from the valve cover (cylinder head cover)? I think I might have had an initial minor leak, that was easily fixed, left some residual oil that made a little smoke. No big deal, but was a little concerning.

EDIT - now I see yours is on the driver's side. There are a lot of other things that could be leaking oil in that area. VANOS, valve cover, oil filter housing.

The coolant is probably the main thing I'd target right now. I think the theory is that you have some sort of seal failure between cooling and combustion - maybe HG, maybe crack, maybe head bolt torquing issue.

Your symptoms are (I'm filling in here): losing coolant, no overflow at the expansion tank (that would happen if exceeding 2 bar), radiator hose suctioned flat the next day, possible water vapor in the exhaust. The fact that you're NOT overflowing at the expansion tank is good, maybe indicating a less serious issue.

If that is true, then @Effduration's suggestion to "swab" the cylinders would be a good, direct test. Remove spark plugs, and poke a paper towel on a stick or something through there, and see if you get any coolant on it. In the testing I did before my HG work, to confirm my HG leakage issue (warped head, in my case), I actually pressurized the cooling system with the engine cold, waited a couple of hours and did that swab test to easily confirm coolant in the cylinders.

BTW, the reason the hoses are sucked flat is that the air that was in there to begin with (air gap at the top of the expansion tank) somehow mixed with water vapor and leaked out during driving when the coolant was hot and pressurized. Then once it cooled down, the water vapor condensed back to water, but the air has gone, so you've got a pretty good vacuum, sucking the hoses flat.

But your leak could be somewhere else. I had a minor but annoying leak due to low quality o-rings on the new water pipes that go into the head. The leak is buried so deep (under the intake manifold, behind the oil filter housing, etc.) that it may be hard to see. But the coolant will vanish, and some level of cool-down suction will result, even without a serious problem.

[Russianblue]

Originally Posted by oldskewel

I think the theory is that you have some sort of seal failure between cooling and combustion - maybe HG, maybe crack, maybe head bolt torquing issue.

Correct. It's got to be one of those things. Unfortunately, those are all deal breakers save the head bolt torquing which is PRETTY much a deal breaker. i do have a spare set of head bolts but i have used 98% of my allotted time for this project.

is it possible there is on obstruction in the system somewhere? Namely, the expansion tank? could that cause these symptoms?

[oldskewel]

Originally Posted by Russianblue

Correct. It's got to be one of those things. Unfortunately, those are all deal breakers save the head bolt torquing which is PRETTY much a deal breaker. i do have a spare set of head bolts but i have used 98% of my allotted time for this project.

is it possible there is on obstruction in the system somewhere? Namely, the expansion tank? could that cause these symptoms?

I'm usually the last guy to say something is not possible, but ... a simple blockage would not cause the suction without other things happening.

The air from the expansion tank air gap must be escaping while the engine is running. So if not from an expansion tank cap overflow, or an external leak, it must be an internal engine leak, which fits your other symptoms. But as I said in the earlier post an external leak that you can't see right now could be it.

I read your earlier posts about the destroyed water pump. So if there is a blockage or continued pump failure (but no other problems) that causes overheating, that would lead to a rise in temperature, which would also raise the coolant pressure. When that reached 2 bar (about 30 psi), the expansion tank cap would vent the excess pressure, letting liquid coolant, water vapor, and AIR out of the cap. Then the loss of air would lead to the suction thing when it cools down. Since you do not see the cap venting, it is very unlikely or impossible that a cooling system blockage is causing the suction.

BTW, I was way over 300% on allotted time when I finished mine.