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  #21  
Old 03-23-2022, 11:58 AM
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I've done a lot of fuel trim sleuthing on my E53, E46 and my E39...The e46 folks have really done a great job documenting all this. You want to get the OBDFusion app and set it up exactly as outlined here:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

as for your specific question...here is a response on the E46 site from JFOJ who pushed the envelope on fuel trim testing:

...Real world advice from BMW and many other vehicles.

Long Term Fuel Trims are the most important value to pay attention to in addition to the engine operating temperature. Short Term Fuel Trim values are ALWAYS changing rapidly and they need to me mentally averaged. They are less of a concern or value that I pay attention to, but these do come in handy for the final analysis of a problem, usually when pinpointing bad MAF's.

These comments are ALL about LTFT values.

Anything between 0% and +2.5% is fine, anything above +2.5% should be investigated.

Anything negative (-) or above +5% is a problem in my opinion.

Anything +10% or greater will typically trigger lean codes. Not sure if +12% is the magic number, but even +10% is an issue.

Be VERY CAREFUL when using any of the "German" software tools, even BMW Scanner, along with INPA, GT1 and so forth. This does not apply to Fuel Trim valves, but where the tools describe or use the terms Rich or Lean. There is either translation problems or a different point of view as to how these tools represent lean and rich conditions. They are usually 180 out of phase as to how the rest of the world view things. So for any of the software tools that are primarily BMW specific, you have to stop and take a LONG breath and THINK when you read CAREFULLY when you see the word Rich mentioned with any code.

RARELY do engines run Rich, they almost always run Lean. Very few situations can cause an engine to run rich, the 2 most common ones are engine operating temperature too low and fuel pressure too high. Even then, these situations RARELY trigger a code for a Rich condition. You will only pick this up with negative (-) fuel trims. Also MANY of the negative (-) fuel trims are MISLEADING. Usually due to a bad or counterfeit sensor.

Also DO NOT jump into replacing O2 sensors for Fuel Trim issues initially.

If the O2 sensors have issues, they WILL NOT usually trigger lean conditions, as the O2 sensors are what actually MEASURES the amount of Oxygen left in the exhaust stream. If the O2 sensor is not working properly, then how can it measure something that is 10% out of range?
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  #22  
Old 03-23-2022, 03:40 PM
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I've never seen fuel trim values like mine before...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Effduration View Post
...Real world advice from BMW and many other vehicles.

Long Term Fuel Trims are the most important value to pay attention to in addition to the engine operating temperature. Short Term Fuel Trim values are ALWAYS changing rapidly and they need to me mentally averaged. They are less of a concern or value that I pay attention to, but these do come in handy for the final analysis of a problem, usually when pinpointing bad MAF's....
Thanks, Effduration, for that link; I've downloaded it to my phone as a .PDF file, so I can study it awhile. Previously, I've been watching YouTube videos from "50sKid" about testing BMW vacuum leaks via fuel trims.

I see that my previous focusing on intermttent short-term variations distracted me from the real problem...the excessively high long-terms. What got my attention mis-directed was the fact that the STFT1 kept going away (on both my Torque Pro and OBDLink apps....OBDLink app is another form of OBDFusion, made by the same people). I ran the sensor tests on the Torque Pro many times, and all the sensors were check-marked. Then, about two weeks ago, STFT1 reappeared on the display.

Like I said before, both LTFT readings have been steady and the same for the two banks, initially always at 10.9, then at 11.72, and sometimes at 10.5. All these high readings are completely way above any I've ever seen while working on other vehicles. With readings like these, I should be seeing:
  • 1) a large vacuum leak, which should also be hissing enough to notice, that my smoke tester should've found already,
  • 2) low idle vacuum, certainly under the 24 lbs @ 710-725 rpm that I always have,
  • 3) obvious fuel-rich exhaust fumes, where there are none,
  • 4) though the P0313 code indicates misfires, there has been no discernable evidence that I can feel (I've always been good at noticing misfires), and
  • 5) the CCV seems OK, with good vacuum (& no Mayo) at both oil filler cap and dipstick
.
However, when I checked underhood about an hour ago, I did find that there was oil blow-by on the valve cover, never before seen, and not there when I did the "check the filler cap & dipstick for vacuum" test last week. The cap was very hard to remove at that time, so I guess it's time for a new seal there.
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My Foxwell showed the usual two KOMBI codes that are always present, but the two DME codes were worded differently than before
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At this rate, I'm starting to believe that the X5 will have to start showing unmistakable signs that can't be ignored, and I can SEE what's amiss. I'll have to use the smoke tester with stronger smoke fluid, and/or use carb cleaner on all the vacuum and intake rubber, and completely remove (again) my freshly rebuilt (with the GAS kit) DISA, and test the IAC again, as well. Otherwise, it's just parts cannon time.

Boy, do I miss those days where fuel, air, spark were easier to manage, by using simpler tools (vacuum/pressure gauge, tach/dwell meter, timing light, and a few hand tools).
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01 BMW X5 E53,3.0i-5L40E, 7/13/01
topas-blau,Leder-grau,"resto-project car"

Here:
14 Lexus ES350,3.5L-U660E
09 HHR Panel,2.2L-4T45E
04 Chevy 2500HD,6.0L-4L80E
98 GMC Sierra 1500,5.7L-4L60E

Gone:
66 Chevelle Malibu 2dr ht.,327>441c.i.-TH350>PGlide/transbrake
08 Cobalt Coupe,2.2L-4T45E
69 & 75 C10s,350c.i.-TH350
86 S10,2.8L-700R4
73 Volvo 142,2.0L-MT4
72 & 73 VW SuperBeetles,1.6l-MT4
64 VW,1.2l-MT4
67 Dodge Monaco 500 2dr ht.,383c.i.-A727
56 Chevy 210 4dr,265c.i.-PGlide
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  #23  
Old 03-23-2022, 04:40 PM
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Check the entire CCV system...including drain to oil dipstick tube...it clogs easily, although in Texas, it should generally be clear of mayo..

A very small vacuum leak could lead to the elevated LTFT's you have. I don't know how you are smoke testing. But I can tell you a smoke test looking for a +10% LTFT needs to be a lot of smoke under pressure and you need to smoke from intake boots, brake booster, etc...

Check the rubber caps on your intake..there is one on the CCV valve and 1-2 on the rear of the intake near the firewall. The fact that you have similar LTFT's on banks 1 &2 tells me the vac leak is likely before it gets into the intake...
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  #24  
Old 03-23-2022, 05:44 PM
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and the search escalates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Effduration View Post
Check the entire CCV system...including drain to oil dipstick tube...

a smoke test looking for a +10% LTFT needs to be a lot of smoke under pressure and you need to smoke from intake boots, brake booster, etc...

Check the rubber caps on your intake..there is one on the CCV valve and 1-2 on the rear of the intake near the firewall. The fact that you have similar LTFT's on banks 1 &2 tells me the vac leak is likely before it gets into the intake...
I haven't yet taken a close look at the plumbing under the beauty cover; out of sight, out of mind. I'll use my cheap Android borescope to take a close-up look under the manifold.

My smoke tester is homemade, very low pressure, and probably not up to the job. I have to either buy a better one, or get better smoke-making fluid.
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I'm totally unaware of the vacuum hose routing on the M54...it took me many years to even learn of all the hoses on my older American cars (even though I replaced most all of them, over the years), and I have no idea where BMW has hidden them in their over-engineering way. I'm gathering photos of hose routing from the internet.
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I can see how this is going to end...I'll have to try another smoke test, then a carb cleaner spray test, then the borescope examination, then a total removal/replacement of any or all rubber parts (plastic too, since BMW loves plastic, even moreso than General Motors). Been there, done that before, but never on an X5. That's why I keep five cars on hand, just in case.

the vac leak is likely before it gets into the intake
So, it could be from the SAP, CCV, fuel filter/pressure regulator, manifold rear, brake booster, etc., and parts & places unkown. I've got a hand drawing from another E46? website showing more possibilities (I'll find hidden treasures while I'm searching, I'm sure). I was hoping not to take it all apart so soon....
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__________________
01 BMW X5 E53,3.0i-5L40E, 7/13/01
topas-blau,Leder-grau,"resto-project car"

Here:
14 Lexus ES350,3.5L-U660E
09 HHR Panel,2.2L-4T45E
04 Chevy 2500HD,6.0L-4L80E
98 GMC Sierra 1500,5.7L-4L60E

Gone:
66 Chevelle Malibu 2dr ht.,327>441c.i.-TH350>PGlide/transbrake
08 Cobalt Coupe,2.2L-4T45E
69 & 75 C10s,350c.i.-TH350
86 S10,2.8L-700R4
73 Volvo 142,2.0L-MT4
72 & 73 VW SuperBeetles,1.6l-MT4
64 VW,1.2l-MT4
67 Dodge Monaco 500 2dr ht.,383c.i.-A727
56 Chevy 210 4dr,265c.i.-PGlide
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  #25  
Old 03-24-2022, 03:13 PM
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unreachable mystery tube

I finally got somewhere in my search for the vacuum leak, that must be causing my codes. First, I looked for loose or spongy rubber hoses coming off the SAP, and the F-connector attached to the intake elbow . They were fine, and felt & looked certainly less than 21 years old (fresher than some on my '09 HHR). Then I got out my cheap borescope to look behind and below the engine.

That's when I spotted a hose, unconnected next to the steering shaft (turned out to be a plastic tube), that was curved upwards towards an unknown spot. For the life of me, literally, I jacked up the left front of the X5, put a 3-ton jackstand under the steel subframe, and crawled under from the left side, Got this photo, but couldn't see where it is supposed to connect (the other end rises up towards a vacuum source above, I guess).
Name:  loose hose next to, or into dipstick tube.jpg
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Can anyone identify where this open-end connects? I saw nothing while under there, and there sure isn't room to explore. My jack & jackstand are both resting on 1/2" plywood, and cutting thu it as I write this; I'll have to put the X5 back on the ground for safety.

And how does anyone actually reach behind the M54 anyway? do I have to take off the windshield washer tank? The only other way in that I see would be to remove the air dam? where the cabin filter housing is. Looks like the brake hose & other lines run through it.
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01 BMW X5 E53,3.0i-5L40E, 7/13/01
topas-blau,Leder-grau,"resto-project car"

Here:
14 Lexus ES350,3.5L-U660E
09 HHR Panel,2.2L-4T45E
04 Chevy 2500HD,6.0L-4L80E
98 GMC Sierra 1500,5.7L-4L60E

Gone:
66 Chevelle Malibu 2dr ht.,327>441c.i.-TH350>PGlide/transbrake
08 Cobalt Coupe,2.2L-4T45E
69 & 75 C10s,350c.i.-TH350
86 S10,2.8L-700R4
73 Volvo 142,2.0L-MT4
72 & 73 VW SuperBeetles,1.6l-MT4
64 VW,1.2l-MT4
67 Dodge Monaco 500 2dr ht.,383c.i.-A727
56 Chevy 210 4dr,265c.i.-PGlide

Last edited by workingonit; 03-24-2022 at 03:17 PM. Reason: added info
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  #26  
Old 03-24-2022, 04:16 PM
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That constant radius curved end is a clue. Is it hard plastic? Does the open end appear that it has never been attached to anything (e.g., no deformation from a clamp or barb or change in diameter)?

It could be a vent for the differential. One end attaches to the diff. The tube then goes upward, ending in that 180* u-turn so the open end is facing downward so nothing falls in.
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  #27  
Old 03-24-2022, 04:17 PM
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That constant radius curved end is a clue. Is it hard plastic? Does the open end appear that it has never been attached to anything (e.g., no deformation from a clamp or barb or change in diameter)?

It could be a vent for the differential. One end attaches to the diff. The tube then goes upward, ending in that 180* u-turn so the open end is facing downward so nothing falls in.
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  #28  
Old 03-24-2022, 04:26 PM
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why does it go towards the engine?

I doesn't appear deformed at all, but it is clearly rising up behind the engine. I can't turn the upward curved end where it might face downward.

I also spotted the rear of the manifold, where there are two new, fresh-appearing caps, and there's another spot (a hard plastic "boss"), where it looks like there should be a fitting. I can't see anything very well, and the Realoem drawings are crude. Still looking.

Could it be part of the fuel tank breather line 13907557924, that looks to be made of hard plastic, with rubber ends? Now, to find where it connects up.
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01 BMW X5 E53,3.0i-5L40E, 7/13/01
topas-blau,Leder-grau,"resto-project car"

Here:
14 Lexus ES350,3.5L-U660E
09 HHR Panel,2.2L-4T45E
04 Chevy 2500HD,6.0L-4L80E
98 GMC Sierra 1500,5.7L-4L60E

Gone:
66 Chevelle Malibu 2dr ht.,327>441c.i.-TH350>PGlide/transbrake
08 Cobalt Coupe,2.2L-4T45E
69 & 75 C10s,350c.i.-TH350
86 S10,2.8L-700R4
73 Volvo 142,2.0L-MT4
72 & 73 VW SuperBeetles,1.6l-MT4
64 VW,1.2l-MT4
67 Dodge Monaco 500 2dr ht.,383c.i.-A727
56 Chevy 210 4dr,265c.i.-PGlide

Last edited by workingonit; 03-24-2022 at 04:34 PM.
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  #29  
Old 03-24-2022, 05:45 PM
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The differential vent I'm talking about attaches to and parallels the dipstick tube in my 2001 3.0i.

The main distinction of this vs. the other hard plastic tubing you'll find is that it terminates in a constant radius 180* u-turn. That sort of an end is not so common other than for applications like this.

I expect searching on this site for that will give some photos.
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  #30  
Old 03-24-2022, 06:13 PM
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the only line I find with an upturn is...

On Realoem, the only line I find with an upturn is a fuel feed line from the filter/regulator to the engine bay.
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Is that a vacuum line? The other line shown is a pressure line, so the engine should be able to run without the "feed line".

I'm having trouble with BMW terminology, technology, and unusual placement of components. I dealt 99% with American cars, 1% foreign cars, and most of them were General Motors cars over the last 5.5 decades. I figured that my first BMW would be a challenge, but looks like I'll have to re-learn everything as I go. oldskewel, at least you've got an eight-year head-start on me, so lead on!
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01 BMW X5 E53,3.0i-5L40E, 7/13/01
topas-blau,Leder-grau,"resto-project car"

Here:
14 Lexus ES350,3.5L-U660E
09 HHR Panel,2.2L-4T45E
04 Chevy 2500HD,6.0L-4L80E
98 GMC Sierra 1500,5.7L-4L60E

Gone:
66 Chevelle Malibu 2dr ht.,327>441c.i.-TH350>PGlide/transbrake
08 Cobalt Coupe,2.2L-4T45E
69 & 75 C10s,350c.i.-TH350
86 S10,2.8L-700R4
73 Volvo 142,2.0L-MT4
72 & 73 VW SuperBeetles,1.6l-MT4
64 VW,1.2l-MT4
67 Dodge Monaco 500 2dr ht.,383c.i.-A727
56 Chevy 210 4dr,265c.i.-PGlide
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