Have you changed your transmission oil?

[LI_BIMMER]

I have had a reverse problem recently on my 00 323i (48k) that will cost me $4300. Speaking to my mechanic, he recommended tranny oil changes at 40k intervals and oil changes at 5k. Btw, I did tell him that I do my own oil changes at 7.5k instead of 15k. He had 4 BMW's in for tranny replacements and 2 of them (01 X5 and 00 328i) were in for the reverse problem like me.

I have searched the threads on this topic and thought it should be polled and highlighted how important it is to change the tranny oil to avoid an expensive replacement. I am still in shock that I have to replace a 48k tranny that was never autocrossed or tracked.

My mechanic will charge around $250 for a tranny oil change and will sample the oil to see if metal shavings / burnt oil exists. If found he would put the original oil back in and let me take a sample and his invoice to the dealer so they can examine the findings in my 2003 X5 (38K). I thought this was a good approach and wondered if the dealer would give me hassle.

What are your thoughts? I have already seen twice that my X did not respond to reverse and forward gear changes from a dead stop. I plan to take it in on this problem alone but I guess they will not be able to dup the problem so I am back to square one.

I felt tranny replacements at lower mileage BMW's was not a norm and just by doing a search on various boards, I see that it seems to be.......

[motordavid]

At a current 55K ish miles, I'm either going to tackle all
the non-engine fluids myself, or drag it to a privateer to
have them all changed out...in the next monthish.

[Coffeeman]

Haven't you heard ?? BMW sez its "lifetime oil", although I've never been able to find "lifetime oil" in any store

[JCL]

I have a 2003 3.0, same as you. I presume we are discussing the automatic transmission here, please correct me if I am wrong.

I have not changed the transmission oil, and don't plan to at this mileage (55,000 km). I don't agree that it is an important preventative maintenance step at this mileage. You will get a lot of opinions, and many will say to change it 'just to be safe' but let's think about that for a moment. Engine oil is contaminated by byproducts of combustion, acids and soot, etc. It is designed to be changed. What is contaminating your transmission oil? If there are metal particles, they are from metal wearing. Why would changing the oil stop that from happening? Similarly if the fluid is burnt. That happens from too much heat on the clutch packs, which could be abuse, or it could be the clutches slipping, or it can be normal wear. It isn't caused by the oil, is my point. So, you can change the oil, and it feels good, but you are just as likely to get a failure after changing the oil as before changing it (within reason).

After 100,000 km, or 60,000 miles, I would agree that it isn't a bad idea. If I have my X5 that long, I will do it at that point.

Two cautions on your independent mechanic's plan: Having a customer smell the burnt transmission oil is a very old ploy used by transmission rebuild shops. Not saying he is doing this, but it was always an easy way to sell transmissions. Secondly, what type of oil sampling is he doing? The odd piece of metal is the pan isn't a problem, there is a filter for that (a clogged filter is a problem, and lots of visible metal is a problem). You can't use spectroscopic analysis if you want to get scientific, you have to do a large particle count analysis. And that really only tells you something if you are trending it, a single data point is of limited value.

Now, if your 2003 is under warranty, why wouldn't you just go to the dealer and tell them the problem? Get a service report that notes the problem. Keep the paperwork. If you have a failure soon after the warranty period, you have a record of it.

Finally, there are a few different automatic transmission problems with various BMW models in the past few years. They are well discussed on the various boards. It doesn't apply to all transmissions, it depends on the supplier and model (BMW doesn't make any automatic transmissions themselves).

Good luck with it both your vehicles.

Jeff

[Kewl X5]

I guess you missed my automatic transmission failure @ 137K last month on my 2001 X5 3.0i. I had to replace with a BMW reman one (I could have bought a really nicely optioned out Mac Pro or 2 plasma TVs)

Anyhow, even replacing the ATF at around 100K which is BMW's recommendation now, it didn't matter because it was an electronic sensor failure that trashed the tranny....

Originally Posted by JCL

I have a 2003 3.0, same as you. I presume we are discussing the automatic transmission here, please correct me if I am wrong.

I have not changed the transmission oil, and don't plan to at this mileage (55,000 km). I don't agree that it is an important preventative maintenance step at this mileage. You will get a lot of opinions, and many will say to change it 'just to be safe' but let's think about that for a moment. Engine oil is contaminated by byproducts of combustion, acids and soot, etc. It is designed to be changed. What is contaminating your transmission oil? If there are metal particles, they are from metal wearing. Why would changing the oil stop that from happening? Similarly if the fluid is burnt. That happens from too much heat on the clutch packs, which could be abuse, or it could be the clutches slipping, or it can be normal wear. It isn't caused by the oil, is my point. So, you can change the oil, and it feels good, but you are just as likely to get a failure after changing the oil as before changing it (within reason).

After 100,000 km, or 60,000 miles, I would agree that it isn't a bad idea. If I have my X5 that long, I will do it at that point.

Two cautions on your independent mechanic's plan: Having a customer smell the burnt transmission oil is a very old ploy used by transmission rebuild shops. Not saying he is doing this, but it was always an easy way to sell transmissions. Secondly, what type of oil sampling is he doing? The odd piece of metal is the pan isn't a problem, there is a filter for that (a clogged filter is a problem, and lots of visible metal is a problem). You can't use spectroscopic analysis if you want to get scientific, you have to do a large particle count analysis. And that really only tells you something if you are trending it, a single data point is of limited value.

Now, if your 2003 is under warranty, why wouldn't you just go to the dealer and tell them the problem? Get a service report that notes the problem. Keep the paperwork. If you have a failure soon after the warranty period, you have a record of it.

Finally, there are a few different automatic transmission problems with various BMW models in the past few years. They are well discussed on the various boards. It doesn't apply to all transmissions, it depends on the supplier and model (BMW doesn't make any automatic transmissions themselves).

Good luck with it both your vehicles.

Jeff

[cmyX6go]

Lease will be up on my girl at about 50K miles so I guess this is a non issue for me

[dkl]

Originally Posted by Coffeeman

Haven't you heard ?? BMW sez its "lifetime oil", although I've never been able to find "lifetime oil" in any store

Yes...but what does "lifetime" mean? 50k? 70k? 100k? Do you really want to plunk down $6k for a new tranny every 50k-100k, that is, if you own the car? Afterall, transmission technology haven't change much in the last 20 years or so (other than cramming more electronics in there). What makes BMW trannies (I mean GM or ZF trannies) so great that you can get away from replacing fluids until 100k when every other manufacturers recommending changing it out at 30k - 60k?

[JCL]

Originally Posted by dkl

...Afterall, transmission technology haven't change much in the last 20 years or so (other than cramming more electronics in there). What makes BMW trannies (I mean GM or ZF trannies) so great that you can get away from replacing fluids until 100k when every other manufacturers recommending changing it out at 30k - 60k?

Transmission technology has changed. Consider lock-up torque converters, and additional electronic controls, both of which limit the heat build-up. More ratios means smaller steps between gears. Today's transmission is not the same as the automatic built 20 years ago, by a long shot. That is why BMW is not the only manufacturer extending the recommended transmission fluid change interval.

I am not saying it should go forever, just that regularly replacing it seems a bit much. 100,000 km or 60,000 miles seems reasonable.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Kewl X5

I guess you missed my automatic transmission failure @ 137K last month on my 2001 X5 3.0i. I had to replace with a BMW reman one (I could have bought a really nicely optioned out Mac Pro or 2 plasma TVs)

Anyhow, even replacing the ATF at around 100K which is BMW's recommendation now, it didn't matter because it was an electronic sensor failure that trashed the tranny....

Didn't miss it, and was sorry to hear about it. However, your experience exactly illustrates my point. When automatic transmissions fail at low or medium miles, it isn't because the fluid wasn't changed. And changing it doesn't do much to ensure a longer transmission life. The failure mode is not old fluid, or contaminated fluid. It is another component, not related to the fluid, which fails and then contaminates the fluid through consequential damage of clutch packs, planetary gears, etc.

[The Cleaner]

I saw this on another forum and never got an answer to my question.

How long is a transmission support to last? Most of us don’t drive Hondas, but the autos in them last about 80-100k serviced or not. Mercedes will go to 200K IF serviced regularly. BMW from my experience will do 120-180 with or without service. Service is very expensive and there is no data that I have seen that indicates transmission fluid change will prolong the life of a BMW transmission. On top on that virtually every “service” I have read is a simple drain of the pan, new filter and a refill.

That changes about 40-50% of the fluid in the transmission, the torque converter is still full not to mention the internal clutch packs can hold a huge amount of fluid after shut down.

My point is this, no one know how long a transmission will last, yet there are hundreds of threads telling owners to change fluid at 30k, 60k etc. Where is the data to back up the need to make these expensive and arguably unneeded services?

My recommendation is this, leave it alone, they were designed as a closed system. I have one car with 165k on the auto and it has not had a change, is that Good? Bad? Average? Beats me, but I can tell you that I have 400 dollars in my pocket that was not spend changing the fluid.