Oil change between service visits

[sprocket1200]

i just follow the SI lights. our 323IC has 193,000 kms (120,000 miles) and runs like a dream.

i have finally decided to break down and change the rear diff fluid...

[fast4d]

I don't like our x5 so I only change the oil based on the service light. but I do change the filter every 8k of when half the green service dots are gone. I only use mobil one, amsoil or german castrol.

I think the rest of the car will disintergrate before any oil related problems.

[vinuneuro]

Originally Posted by fast4d

I don't like our x5 so I only change the oil based on the service light. but I do change the filter every 8k of when half the green service dots are gone. I only use mobil one, amsoil or german castrol.

I think the rest of the car will disintergrate before any oil related problems.

What you are doing is right on the money imo. You are using oils that can actually distance and changing the filter in between.

In the case of doing oil changes at the dealer, the oil they use is not equipped to go 10k+ miles.

[Dannyell]

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

the oil they use is not equipped to go 10k+ miles.

I don't understand how do they get away with that?? Most of the problems that we have come from dealers...nobody buys a BMW and not get warranty or extended warranty..but the darn things still seem to have problems early for the kind of money you pay for one...

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Dannyell

I don't understand how do they get away with that??

It is a matter of opinion. Vin is certainly entitled to his opinion. Maybe his dealer doesn't use synthetic oil. In my opinion the oil my dealer uses, and the oil they sell over the parts counter, is fully capable of making it to the service indicator lights, as is the OEM filter. I lose absolutely no sleep worrying about oil change intervals, there are more important things to watch out for.

I would caution that if you have low annual mileage you should change it every 18-24 months anyway, and that if your application falls under the severe service category then you should reduce the interval as BMW suggests.

[BimmerDude]

That's kinda harsh Fast4d. How many miles and why do you feel that way? I'm just curious to see. I'm not trying to bust your chops, just seriously curious.

[fast4d]

x5 is the wife's vehicle. I wanted a 540 touring. we have a family of three. 540 would be better driving and better MPG.

front suspension is clunking again. I replaced everything at 80k. who knows when the trans will go. power steering has been acting up. little to low assist at low speeds.

we have 110k on the 4.4 x5

[vinuneuro]

Originally Posted by JCL

It is a matter of opinion. Vin is certainly entitled to his opinion. Maybe his dealer doesn't use synthetic oil. In my opinion the oil my dealer uses, and the oil they sell over the parts counter, is fully capable of making it to the service indicator lights, as is the OEM filter. I lose absolutely no sleep worrying about oil change intervals, there are more important things to watch out for.

I would caution that if you have low annual mileage you should change it every 18-24 months anyway, and that if your application falls under the severe service category then you should reduce the interval as BMW suggests.

Are you assuming all synthetic oils are created equal? The oil BMW NA uses doesn't isn't even made from a synthetic basestock. If I planned on keeping the vehicle past 100k+ miles, this would be certainly be very important to me. More than a few BMW techs have confirmed that oil and filter are not capable of the oci's BMW recommends with lights. Sometimes the filter is apparently is more than one piece when it's removed after 12k miles. You can look at the filter and corresponding comments (after 6k miles use) in hayaku's oil change diy for more proof.

Anyone reading this and wanting to go 12-15k miles between oil changes: the only oils available in North America capable of going that many miles are Mobil1 0W-40, the majority of Amsoil oils, and German Castrol 0W-30. You still need to change the filter at 7,500 miles, which is easy enough. If you want to learn more about oils, spend sometime reading here, http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php .

And as far as low mileage vehicles go, the maximum time interval for an oil change is 1 year.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

Are you assuming all synthetic oils are created equal? The oil BMW NA uses doesn't isn't even made from a synthetic basestock. If I planned on keeping the vehicle past 100k+ miles, this would be certainly be very important to me. More than a few BMW techs have confirmed that oil and filter are not capable of the oci's BMW recommends with lights. Sometimes the filter is apparently is more than one piece when it's removed after 12k miles. You can look at the filter and corresponding comments (after 6k miles use) in hayaku's oil change diy for more proof.

Anyone reading this and wanting to go 12-15k miles between oil changes: the only oils available in North America capable of going that many miles are Mobil1 0W-40, the majority of Amsoil oils, and German Castrol 0W-30. You still need to change the filter at 7,500 miles, which is easy enough. If you want to learn more about oils, spend sometime reading here, http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php .

And as far as low mileage vehicles go, the maximum time interval for an oil change is 1 year.

We haven't had a good oil debate for months now. What follows are some facts, mixed up with a lot of opinion. My credentials are mechanic; mechanical engineer; lots of years (20+) in the engine service business (not BMW specific); some work in an oil sampling lab; former associate member of SAE (lapsed); and engine enthusiast. I am not a petroleum engineer. At the end of the day, you should do what is right for you.

Are all synthetics equal? No, I don't think so, but the differences exist more in the lab than in the real world. I am mainly interested in meeting the oil specs of the engine manufacturer. For both of my new BMW vehicles, that is 5-30, SL (SM on the 535), ACEA A3. Thankfully the LL nonsense seems to have gone away now; maybe BMW has given up trying to push their proprietary test on the oil manufacturers. People for years were assuming that if oil companies didn't pay for the BMW LL01 test, and then label their oil with that fact, that it wasn't a good oil. Not true. What it really meant was that the oil companies didn't care about the BMW test. I saw no mention of the LL standards in my two new owner's manuals.

I wonder about pushing 0-40 when it isn't a recommended viscosity rating by BMW. In most climates, 5-30 works pretty well. My experience in oil testing years ago was that wide ranges such as 0-40 and 0-50 were less stable, essentially you gave up quality to get the broader viscosity range. Additionally I am not sure the Amsoil oils all meet the A3 standard, no matter what the process is by which Amsoil turns regular oil into synthetic oil. There is conflicting information on the web. I would follow the package labelling, myself.

If an oil meets the recommended viscosity spec, the SAE and API specs, and the ACEA A3 spec, I don't worry about who makes it. I certainly wouldn't purchase a PAO synthetic oil on the sole basis that it was more synthetic, if it didn't meet those specs.

Not too interested in the 'real synthetic' vs Castrol debate. The vehicle requires a full synthetic. BMW uses a full synthetic, by my definition. I buy a full synthetic Castrol, whether from BMW (likely NA basestock, don't know) or Germany (different basestock). There was a debate on what the word synthetic means, back in '97. It was settled by API and SAE in the late '90s. It is only Amsoil and Mobil that continue to beat the drum that their synthetic is better than another synthetic. I haven't seen any real world performance difference in the base stocks. I like the position that API and SAE took: essentially, they don't care to define 'synthetic'. They care about whether the oil meets the performance standards, not what process the oil company followed to produce the oil.

You don't need to change the filter at 7500 miles unless you want to, or you meet the severe service definitions. If you do meet the severe service definitions (lots of short trips, never letting the engine warm up, taxi service) then by all means cut the BMW service interval in half, as BMW suggests. A couple of owners who didn't do that, and had problems, reported only anecdotally, don't require a rewrite of the BMW service recommendations IMHO. I have seen no sludge buildup myself when following the BMW recommendations. I have seen no early hour engine failures. I saw some photos on the web (samples of one or two) but no data on how the engines were maintained, just horror show snapshots. My experience is probably limited, but I just don't think it matters that much.

I hear a lot of suggestions that bad things will happen after 100,000 miles. I can't imagine owning my E60 at that point (there is no extended warranty available in Canada). I have seen no real evidence of reduced BMW engine life due to following the manufacturer's recommendations. Could it happen? Sure, I suppose. I am far more worried about Idrive crashes, various sensor failures, aluminum subframe failures, and so on, after 100,000 miles, than I am about engine wear. The engines are not the weakest link. A significant number of posters here don't believe in breaking in the engine; how can we seriously worry about what oil was in the engine for a short period if we don't allow engine surfaces to bed in when new? Fast4d had it right, IMO; the rest of the car will disintegrate before we get engine problems.

As for low-mileage vehicles, the one-year recomendation is old information, and was put out there when API standards were much lower than they are today. You couldn't buy an SL oil then; it was more likely to be an SE oil. Oils have improved a lot. The oil you bought several years ago does not meet any current standards (SL, SM). That is likely why the BMW manual now states two years for low mileage vehicles (2007 X3 model, the only manual I had handy). I erred on the side of caution and suggested 18-24 months.

Fun topic. Flame suit ready.

[ripp222]

This appears to be a good thread to read in regards to oil change frequency... I change the oil at 7500 miles, necessary or not, it gives piece of mind.

One topic that hasn't come up much is filter area...
My other rides have the M62TU V8 engine which uses the 11-42-7-510-717 FILTER KIT. This uses a filter having 73 pleats, each side being 18 mm deep, and 144 mm long. This means each pleat has 5184 square mm. At 73 pleats this is 378,432 mm square or about 0.378 square meters of surface area.

Now fast forward to the N62 engine which uses the 11-42-7-511-161 FILTER KIT, which uses a filter having 70 pleats, each side being 15 mm deep, and 89 mm long. This means each pleat has 2670 square mm. At 70 pleats this is 186,900 mm square or about 0.187 square meters of surface area.

0.187 / 0.378 = approximately 50%
With half the surface area to hold debris, I say all the more reason to increase the oil change interval... despite there being 1 more quart of oil in the N62 oil pan. Comments anyone??

(hope Bimmerboard doesn't mind hosting a photo):