Anyone using nitrogen in your tires?

[ncx]

I keep hearing of all the benefits of nitrogen learned from NASCAR and the airline industry including longer constant tire pressure, less moisture, better MPG, and longer tread and side-wall life.

After reading numerous articles on the science of why nitrogen-air is better than oxygenated air, I can't see a downside to trying this. Since our X5 tires are really expensive (specially with 20's+) it seems like a no brainier. I'd like to know if anyone here has real-world experience with nitrogen filled tires.

Thanks-
Kevin

[JV]

Originally Posted by ncx

I keep hearing of all the benefits of nitrogen learned from NASCAR and the airline industry including longer constant tire pressure, less moisture, better MPG, and longer tread and side-wall life.

After reading numerous articles on the science of why nitrogen-air is better than oxygenated air, I can't see a downside to trying this. Since our X5 tires are really expensive (specially with 20's+) it seems like a no brainier. I'd like to know if anyone here has real-world experience with nitrogen filled tires.

Thanks-
Kevin

We filled the tires on our MH-60s with Nitrogen when I was a servant of Uncle Sam, and even though we constantly checked pressure as part of pre-flight, in a year of flying the same bird, we never had to adjust tire pressure. No expansion issues due to change in temp, etc. That impressed the hell out of me.

Practicality wise, maybe not the greatest option for us regular drivers tho.

JV

[dflwshaft]

Originally Posted by ncx

I keep hearing of all the benefits of nitrogen learned from NASCAR and the airline industry including longer constant tire pressure, less moisture, better MPG, and longer tread and side-wall life.

After reading numerous articles on the science of why nitrogen-air is better than oxygenated air, I can't see a downside to trying this. Since our X5 tires are really expensive (specially with 20's+) it seems like a no brainier. I'd like to know if anyone here has real-world experience with nitrogen filled tires.

Thanks-
Kevin

I plan to put nitrogen in my X5 tires after I pick it up at the factory next week.

A couple of days ago, I had to put two new tires on the rear of my 540 (after only 16K miles, gulp). As an added measure, I took it in for an alignment to a recommended specialty shop (they specialize in Ferrari, Porsche, etc.). That turned out to be a good move. The mechanic took a good bit of the camber and all of the toe in out of the rear. It was a little out of spec but the results were fantastic! Now I've got a lot less understeer and my tires should last a whole lot longer, yippie.

Now for the nitrogen. I saw a poster in the shop stating that they offered nitrogen replacement. It had a big F1 Ferrari on it so being an F1 fan I had to ask. For $20 they did the nitrogen all the way around. Of course he explained all the benefits, but what made me do it was the constant and no pressure loss. That was a contributor to my tire wear so I was interested. What made me believe it was true was that I know F1 cars want precise constant pressure no matter if the tires are hot or cold as a part of suspension tuning. If it didn't work, they wouldn't use it. I was sold. They even stood behind the mod saying that it was a lifetime service. If I ever lost pressure, they would fill them up. That's also a great way to know if you've got a slow leak (something your tire pressure monitor system won't detect). Hey, it's worth $20 to never have to worry about tire pressure again!

[ncx]

Thanks JV and dflwshaft! Really appreciate the input.

Several guys around here run nitrogen in their street cars (a 545, a Boxer, and 2 heavily modded vettes) and they all swear by it. Two of them also race and have been running it for years at the track. They say it is absolutely true that the pressure stays constant in any weather over long periods of time. It is cheap here too, I think this is my next low-dough mod.

Thanks again

edit: called costco, they are filling N2 for free here. $15 at my normal local shop. It is an evacuation/filling machine. Goodyear is installing their machine this month and will be switching to Nit. Interesting.

[X5Jay]

Interesting stuff! I just found this web-site - no affiliation but thought you might be interested... http://www.tirelast.com/index.html

Good information under the links at the left...

[kirkX5m]

Originally Posted by dflwshaft

Now for the nitrogen. I saw a poster in the shop stating that they offered nitrogen replacement. It had a big F1 Ferrari on it so being an F1 fan I had to ask. For $20 they did the nitrogen all the way around. Of course he explained all the benefits, but what made me do it was the constant and no pressure loss. That was a contributor to my tire wear so I was interested. What made me believe it was true was that I know F1 cars want precise constant pressure no matter if the tires are hot or cold as a part of suspension tuning. If it didn't work, they wouldn't use it. I was sold. They even stood behind the mod saying that it was a lifetime service. If I ever lost pressure, they would fill them up. That's also a great way to know if you've got a slow leak (something your tire pressure monitor system won't detect). Hey, it's worth $20 to never have to worry about tire pressure again!

so how do you find out whose got a nitrogen filler machine?

[ncx]

Originally Posted by X5Jay

Interesting stuff! I just found this web-site - no affiliation but thought you might be interested... http://www.tirelast.com/index.html

Good information under the links at the left...

Thanks for the link. very interesting stuff.

[AutoXer]

Originally Posted by kirkX5m

so how do you find out whose got a nitrogen filler machine?

I got some new tires put in at Costco, and they filled it with nitrogen for free. They also put on those green valve caps which I hate, so I replaced those at my first opportunity. But can't beat the price.

[JCL]

Not quite sure why nitrogen filling in tires for road use is seen as such an advantage. There seems to be a lot of hype here.

- I agree with the science. The relative size of the molecules does mean that pressure drops slower, for pressure drops other than rim leaks or valve stem leaks. These two are the reason you won't get away from checking your tire pressures, as some claim; you still have two failure modes that can lead to pressure drops.
- Nitrogen expands very similarly to air (which, as is noted above, is mostly nitrogen). Thus, it is not correct to say that tire pressures won't change as nitrogen-filled tires heat up, they certainly will. They just change more predictably. Since not many road drivers are checking pressures at anything other than the cold tire pressure, the predictability is not really an issue on the road.
- There are many claims that not having oxygen inside the tire will slow oxidation of the carcass. Recall that there is more surface area on the outside of the tire than the inside (and last time I checked, there was oxygen on the outside)
- What about the air that is already inside the tire? Do you have a way of purging it? Something like two valve stems? Or, is it filled several times and vented each time?
- Airplane tires face different issues than automotive tires. Factors like extreme cold, extreme altitude.
- Heavy truck tires (particularly on-road long haul fleets) typically plan on several life cycles through retreading. That makes a case for saving the carcass, to get more lives out of it. Not typically an issue on automotive tires.
- Heavy equipment tires are sometimes filled with nitrogen, but then, they are also sometimes filled with calcium chloride. Wouldn't recommend that on the road, but it shows that what is best in one application isn't necessarily the answer for another (unless you want the advantage of all that road-hugging weight)

All of the above is only to show that nitrogen isn't a wonderdrug, there is no magic. It can't hurt, and it may even help a little. It just isn't likely to solve all of the problems that it is being advertised as being a solution for. Personally, I wouldn't pay extra for it, but I wouldn't object to it being used if it wasn't at any additional cost to me.

Most of the variation in tire pressure during a heating cycle comes from the water vapour, not the oxygen. The water vapour also causes issues with rim-bead seals. The single biggest item to check is whether your tire supplier has a drier on the air pressure line. Issues arise from too much water in the line and tank (if there is no drier, has it been drained off recently, ie today?). Nitrogen avoids that issue, but so does properly maintaining the compressed air system.

Just my $0.02.

[hayaku]

i use nitrogen. i have access to a rig that evacuates air out of my tires before i fill it with nothing but nitrogen. it'll vacuum all the air out of the tire, sucking in the sidewalls and collapsing the tire making it look like a dried up prune... all without breaking the bead seal.. then it fills with n2.

common air is about 72% nitrogen, 26% oxygen and 1% of other mixed stuff... (you learn this in scuba class). the benefits of nitrogen in the tire are not hype. all pro race cars use this. why?

- the humidity in nitrogen is less then 1%. humidity in regular air can grow over time if the tanks on air compressors aren't serviced and drained regularly. the older a tank/compressor, the more chances of water are in the tank and henceforth filled into your tire.

- high water content is bad for the tire and therefore seep through and leak air.

- the reason why they are important for serious track and heavy duty use is once they heat up, the air pressure does NOT expand as much as regular air due to the low levels of humidity. On a hot day with surface temps above 120 degrees, my friends that use air in their tires experienced pressure increases as high as 18 psi. I on the other hand only saw 2 psi increase all day long. my friends have to constantly bled their tires and play with pressures all day long while i just drove and had fun...

costco is now moving to filling tires with nitrogen too... so its becoming mainstream finally...

i'm in the middle of building my own nitrogen rig for my tires since i go through so much tires...