4.4 X5 with 5hp24 problems

[langleyinLA]

I own a 2001 4.4L X5 with 82K, and I want to share my recent experience with the ZF5HP24 transmission.

Symptons:

1) When I brake from 30 to 40mph to a stop, there is a "clunk" or a hard downshift in the transmission.

2) The X5 will not shift into reverse sometimes, especially in the morning. Sometimes in reverse, the reverse does not engage, except after stepping on the accelerator and rpm is 2 to 3K. Then the reverse would engage suddenly.

After seaching x5world and googling, I tried inexpensive ways to solve the problem.

1) reset the program (turn key on 5sec., turn off 5sec. and turn on engine)

2) replaced the transmission fluid and put in latest transmission software.

After the "inexpensive fixes", in addition to the original symptons, I had

1) when goin up a slight incline, stepping on the accelerator, I would have a sudden jerk. The rpm would increase and then transmission would engage. feels like being rear ended.

I own an auto repair shop and decided to bite the bullet and investigate. I removed the transmission, bought a retrofit kit and opened the transmission. I would like to mention that the transmission fluid was dark gray before changing, and was also a gray color when I removed the transmission (2 weeks new fluid).

I replaced the parts from the retrofit kit into the transmission and looked for possible causes. One of the o ring look very slightly worn. However, one of the clutch drum housing had very deep cuts in the groove from the clutch (highly unusual). It appears that was where most of the fine metal came from. I cleaned the valve body and did not change anything in it. I also replaced that the clutch drum housing (I am not sure if this is the correct term for the part b/c the groove is on the outside). We put everything back and

Hurray all the symptons were gone!

Coincidentally, the same time I was working on the X5, a 2000 328 with the ZF5HP17 transmission was also in the shop with a no reverse sympton. I had also found the noreverse.org website while investigating the x5 issue. Originally, we were just going to replace the transmission with a used one. After finding out from noreverse.org, we decided that a used transmission might have the same problem. So we opened the ZF5HP17, and found the exact problem as shown in the tranny autopsy. I have the part and could post a picture.

However, the cause of the no reverse in the X5 and the 328 was different. One, the lip of the drum was breaking whereas the X5 drum had cuts in the grooves. I do not believe they are the same drums though.

Hope this helps.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by langleyinLA

I own a 2001 4.4L X5 with 82K, and I want to share my recent experience with the ZF5HP24 transmission.....
<snip>

Great post. Interesting that the two ZF transmissions you went in to had apparently different failure modes (unless another root cause resulted in the two different failures on the housings)

[swissfrank]

Originally Posted by LangleyinLA

...So we opened the ZF5HP17, and found the exact problem as shown in the tranny autopsy. I have the part and could post a picture.

However, the cause of the no reverse in the X5 and the 328 was different. One, the lip of the drum was breaking whereas the X5 drum had cuts in the grooves. I do not believe they are the same drums though.

Hope this helps...

Thank you for the input LangleyinLA, of course any little bit of information I get is extremely useful. I would be very interested in seeing that part and picture(s) at your earliest convenience. I have not had any time this last week to even touch my transmission as I've been swamped at work.

Since you did take your transmission out, are there any pointers or shortcuts you'd be able to pass along, seeing as how I'll be starting to remove the transmission as soon as i find some time, anything that will help me go at it easier and quicker will be awesome.

Regards,
Frank

[LadyFF26]

Jeff and Frank-
Excellent reading, I must say. You two seems to know what you are doing...any comments on my earlier post regarding Hydrolock? I am in a real bind here and would love for anyone to give their opinions....thanks guys.

Lyn

[chief jimbo]

Hi everyone.. I was just doing a google search trying to find the location of the check ball that goes in the 5hp24 trans. I found this post and thought I would share my transmission story. It is over at BimmerBoard.. Can view it here http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/474000

Sorry to barge in.. Lol Now back to try to find out where this check ball and the orifice tubes go.

Jim

[swissfrank]

Originally Posted by chief jimbo

...Now back to try to find out where this check ball and the orifice tubes go...
Jim

Thanks for sharing Jim, this will come in handy when i venture down this path, it's been cold and i've not had enough time to yank my transmission out yet....

I hope these pics help you out, I didn't take any pics while reassembling because I forgot, but let me know if i can help you out... I've uploaded the 5MP photos so you can zoom in...

Remember that you must install the orifices into the channel plate, and the face of the gasket in the picture showing goes onto the face of channel plate showing, you must install them in the proper order, use the oil filter pickup hole as a reference.

Gasket


Channel Plate

Frank

[fast4d]

this is great info. where in LA is your shop so I can take my x5 there?

Originally Posted by langleyinLA

I own a 2001 4.4L X5 with 82K, and I want to share my recent experience with the ZF5HP24 transmission.

Symptons:

1) When I brake from 30 to 40mph to a stop, there is a "clunk" or a hard downshift in the transmission.

2) The X5 will not shift into reverse sometimes, especially in the morning. Sometimes in reverse, the reverse does not engage, except after stepping on the accelerator and rpm is 2 to 3K. Then the reverse would engage suddenly.

After seaching x5world and googling, I tried inexpensive ways to solve the problem.

1) reset the program (turn key on 5sec., turn off 5sec. and turn on engine)

2) replaced the transmission fluid and put in latest transmission software.

After the "inexpensive fixes", in addition to the original symptons, I had

1) when goin up a slight incline, stepping on the accelerator, I would have a sudden jerk. The rpm would increase and then transmission would engage. feels like being rear ended.

I own an auto repair shop and decided to bite the bullet and investigate. I removed the transmission, bought a retrofit kit and opened the transmission. I would like to mention that the transmission fluid was dark gray before changing, and was also a gray color when I removed the transmission (2 weeks new fluid).

I replaced the parts from the retrofit kit into the transmission and looked for possible causes. One of the o ring look very slightly worn. However, one of the clutch drum housing had very deep cuts in the groove from the clutch (highly unusual). It appears that was where most of the fine metal came from. I cleaned the valve body and did not change anything in it. I also replaced that the clutch drum housing (I am not sure if this is the correct term for the part b/c the groove is on the outside). We put everything back and

Hurray all the symptons were gone!

Coincidentally, the same time I was working on the X5, a 2000 328 with the ZF5HP17 transmission was also in the shop with a no reverse sympton. I had also found the noreverse.org website while investigating the x5 issue. Originally, we were just going to replace the transmission with a used one. After finding out from noreverse.org, we decided that a used transmission might have the same problem. So we opened the ZF5HP17, and found the exact problem as shown in the tranny autopsy. I have the part and could post a picture.

However, the cause of the no reverse in the X5 and the 328 was different. One, the lip of the drum was breaking whereas the X5 drum had cuts in the grooves. I do not believe they are the same drums though.

Hope this helps.

[swissfrank]

Here is the failed F Clutch Piston Seal



Note the rounded edges, these should be almost flat/sharp



This is what it should look like.



The inner seal is blown too.





It caused the friction material in the F Clutch pack to wear and also warped
the discs. The rest of the friction material was basically like new.

[koister2001]

Great writeups! I found this thread so informative.

My question is what's the odd of being hit by the tranny problem within 100k miles?

[swissfrank]

I have a high mileage x5 (170,000km), however others have even higher mileage 4.4i X5 and the same transmission with no problems.

After working with this transmission and seeing its internals first hand, IMO this is a pretty solid transmission, with the amount of mileage on my trans, all the other gears/clutches show virtually zero wear, there are part numbers on the friction material itself and other than being oily I can still read them clearly (Despite my very aggressive driving habits and track days).

It is noted the the F Clutch in this transmission is the inherent weak spot for it, if it were not to have failed, I wouldn't see an issue with putting half a million miles on this transmission easily (with fluid maintenance of course).

There do seem to be a large number of people that are currently having this problem, however I believe there is an even larger number of people that are not, and will not, we just don't hear about those circumstances.

I don't want to seem that I'm just telling myself this to feel better, but those are my two cents.