Thanks for nothing BMW NA ( Blue smoke/Oil loss/Oil separator ) - Page 3

vegasX5 · #1 03-05-2008, 04:08 PM

My biggest fear would be to not do the preventative repair and have a failure only to have BMW only pay for a "portion" of the cost of replacement - making you pay labor or some other bogus charge (which would exceed the ~$750 cost I'm sure). Worse would be if you kept just passed 100k and then the failure happens and you're left holding the bag. Best thing to do is what you've done by ensuring the problem in your case is documented just in case something does happen. I would hate to have to pay for this repair when we all know it should be a BMW corporate responsibility, but being stranded in the middle of a blizzard sucks and is very unsafe as well!

nrgetic99 · #2 03-05-2008, 04:10 PM

Got the parts down to $363 !

X5 Meister · #3 03-05-2008, 05:18 PM

Man this is really a horrible situation. When did BMW "solve" this problem and how in terms of the production run of the car?

In my opinion, at least in the current situation you are in, the biggest problem is risk of getting stranded. Given that it has already happened once (or more then once?) and a BMW dealer has documented the complaint (get copies of all the paperwork by the way) then perhaps you could try to get BMW NA to supply you with free BMW Assist in case you get stranded, or at least a promise, in writing of course, that they will reimburse you for the towing charge to the dealer (which if 250 miles away will probably be more expensive then a new engine!).

Other then that I would drive the hell out of it and when it happens again, tow it to the dealer immediately and get yourself a brand new engine, which I would only imagine would come with a 50,000 mile warranty.

I'm really sorry to hear about all this mess. Such a relatively easy repair to fix the problem and so little headache on BMW's part. Then again, it seems like free recalls have disappeared from BMW since they started to classify stuff as not directly safety related (can you believe it)!

primetime · #4 03-05-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgruber

Man this is really a horrible situation. When did BMW "solve" this problem and how in terms of the production run of the car?

In my opinion, at least in the current situation you are in, the biggest problem is risk of getting stranded. Given that it has already happened once (or more then once?) and a BMW dealer has documented the complaint (get copies of all the paperwork by the way) then perhaps you could try to get BMW NA to supply you with free BMW Assist in case you get stranded, or at least a promise, in writing of course, that they will reimburse you for the towing charge to the dealer (which if 250 miles away will probably be more expensive then a new engine!).

Other then that I would drive the hell out of it and when it happens again, tow it to the dealer immediately and get yourself a brand new engine, which I would only imagine would come with a 50,000 mile warranty.

I'm really sorry to hear about all this mess. Such a relatively easy repair to fix the problem and so little headache on BMW's part. Then again, it seems like free recalls have disappeared from BMW since they started to classify stuff as not directly safety related (can you believe it)!

Yeah, Bimmer won't recall anything...ever..Its a pain in the ass..And its horrible business..This is a safety issue for certain, and they claim it is not. BMW quite frankly, just doesn't give a ##%$ what your problem is..Its your problem..Not theirs...nice huh?

midwesterner · #5 03-05-2008, 06:11 PM

Does this problem exist in later model years such as 2005 or 2006 X5 3.0s?

I have heard of this issue in 3.0 liter 5 series and X5 as late as 2003!!!!

I know at least a few people that have experienced this issue and now they are buying a Lexus/Acura

JCL · #6 03-06-2008, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgruber

Given that it has already happened once (or more then once?) and a BMW dealer has documented the complaint (get copies of all the paperwork by the way) then perhaps you could try to get BMW NA to supply you with free BMW Assist in case you get stranded, or at least a promise, in writing of course, that they will reimburse you for the towing charge to the dealer (which if 250 miles away will probably be more expensive then a new engine!).

Other then that I would drive the hell out of it and when it happens again, tow it to the dealer immediately and get yourself a brand new engine, which I would only imagine would come with a 50,000 mile warranty.

What has already happened? The engine stumbled once when cold? How do you know it was due to the oil separator, and if it was, how do you think it cured itself?

On a separate note, replacement parts do not come with a warranty beyond the original warranty. For example, if you have a 50,000 mile warranty and the engine fails at 49,000 miles, you have 1,000 miles of warranty left. A replacement engine will come with 1,000 miles of warranty. You didn't pay for a warranty beyond 50,000 miles, so you don't deserve to get one. The warranty isn't on the replacement part, the warranty is on the original part. What you suggest would lead to 'forever warranty' as long as it kept failing. Not going to happen. You will likely have a short (ie 6 month) warranty on the service labour work, but nothing more on the part. This is not strictly a BMW policy, it is common to all brands of vehicles that I have worked with. Some additional things may be done by the dealer as a courtesy, but you don't have a right to betterment.

X5 Meister · #7 03-06-2008, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL

What has already happened? The engine stumbled once when cold? How do you know it was due to the oil separator, and if it was, how do you think it cured itself?

On a separate note, replacement parts do not come with a warranty beyond the original warranty. For example, if you have a 50,000 mile warranty and the engine fails at 49,000 miles, you have 1,000 miles of warranty left. A replacement engine will come with 1,000 miles of warranty. You didn't pay for a warranty beyond 50,000 miles, so you don't deserve to get one. The warranty isn't on the replacement part, the warranty is on the original part. What you suggest would lead to 'forever warranty' as long as it kept failing. Not going to happen. You will likely have a short (ie 6 month) warranty on the service labour work, but nothing more on the part. This is not strictly a BMW policy, it is common to all brands of vehicles that I have worked with. Some additional things may be done by the dealer as a courtesy, but you don't have a right to betterment.

Not sure I agree with your comment on the warranty period. His car is already at 70,000 miles and BMW stated they would replace the engine for him given that he falls in the window of cars the this is likely to happen to, per the SIB. I would be shocked as hell if BMW installed a new engine, and let's just say it fails 2,000 miles later, they tell him to take a hike. Personally, I'd call an attorney.

JCL · #8 03-06-2008, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgruber

Not sure I agree with your comment on the warranty period. His car is already at 70,000 miles and BMW stated they would replace the engine for him given that he falls in the window of cars the this is likely to happen to, per the SIB. I would be shocked as hell if BMW installed a new engine, and let's just say it fails 2,000 miles later, they tell him to take a hike. Personally, I'd call an attorney.

That isn't what I said. If it failed today, and they replaced it, he would have 30,000 miles of warranty left. His warranty is on the vehicle, not the replacement part.

nrgetic99 · #9 03-06-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL

That isn't what I said. If it failed today, and they replaced it, he would have 30,000 miles of warranty left. His warranty is on the vehicle, not the replacement part.

UPDATE :

As of today, BMW NA are working with my stealer and may have their roving tech specialist look at the vehicle at my stealers location.

What swung it was the fact that I cannot get it to exhibit the symptoms at my stealer due to the ambient conditions. The dude at BMW NA tried to tell me that whatever happened, the car would store a code that could be interogated later.

I said "Really, does BMW have a code for a frozen breather hose ? " to which the reply was that they probably do not.

I then added that there is no code that I know of for oil ON TOP OF THE PISTON and the first code to be thrown would be a misfire code about 2/10's of a second before the TERMINAL ENGINE FAILURE code.

We will see... I am not holding my breath.

I will however add the heated jacket for the hoses whatever happens..now I have the price down to $363 in parts.

David

X5 in AK · #10 03-25-2008, 06:12 AM

Living in the frigid north and having dealt with the oil seperator issue (proactively, I haven't broken anything because of it), my advice dovetails JCL's advice, which is to simply clean out/replace the hoses and clean out the seperator every year or two. Also change your oil at least twice a year if you are driving in cold temps, especially if you are doing short trips, as this allows condensation to build up in the oil. I checked my hoses after 10 months of driving, and they already had a layer of goo inside of them.

The hoses BMW uses are a cheap unreinforced rubber that seems to melt upon contact with motor oil. The seperator clogs up with goo (mainly emulsified oil, near as I can tell) and can be cleaned out with liberal amounts of brake cleaner and compressed air. There is nothing inside the seperator, it works purely on the gravity principle.

I attached a pic of the original seperator from my '01 that had 85k miles on it. I cut the top off to see what was inside.
The other pic is of my current setup. I installed the new seperator higher than original by offsetting the mounting holes, which gave clearance to the hoses so they don't sit on the intake manifold. One of the problems is that the hoses touch the intake manifold. Due to the huge volume of air rushing thru the manifold, it is going to be at roughly the same temp as the outside air. Thus, if it is -20 outside, your seperator hose is going to be sitting on an almost -20 deg piece of plastic, which will of course only contribute to the freezing problem.
I have also insulated the lines. The pic shows some domestic water pipe insulation, I have since changed to some non-combustible industrial fiberglass insulation.