Thinking about a 0W-20 ? Need answers ?

[paulgt3]

In SoCal and in particular in the desert in all my machines including my Porsche GT-3 I run Mobil One 15-50 Red cap. same as the Cup Cars.

[cary]

The X5 is not designed to use a 0w-20 oil. BMW sets it's own oil specifications, known as LL-98, LL-01 & LL-04. Common to all of these oils is the requirement that they have an HTHS of greater than 3.5, same as ACEA A3. A 0w-30 oil with an HTHS in the mid 2 range will lead to accelerated wear at the bearings and cam lobes.

If you are concerned about cold starting performance, all oils with a 0w rating have to pass the same cold test pump, regardless of their thickness at operating temperature (i.e. 20, 30, 40, 50 etc). So for optimal cold start performance while maintaining adequate protection for the bearing and lube, you use a 0w-40 or heavy 0w-30 that meets BMW LL-01 and/or ACEA A3.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by cary

The X5 is not designed to use a 0w-20 oil. BMW sets it's own oil specifications, known as LL-98, LL-01 & LL-04. Common to all of these oils is the requirement that they have an HTHS of greater than 3.5, same as ACEA A3. A 0w-30 oil with an HTHS in the mid 2 range will lead to accelerated wear at the bearings and cam lobes.

I don't see oils labelled LL-98, 01, or 04 any more. My BMW dealer here doesn't carry them, local parts stores don't carry them. Interestingly, in my latest vehicle owner's manual (535i) there is no reference to the LL oil spec. I suspect that BMW has quietly dropped it, possibly because it never got traction (figuratively speaking). Oil manufacturers weren't interested in another private test, I suspect. A3 is worthwhile, agreed. Do you have any information on the BMW LL standard that is recent, from BMW themselves?

[cary]

LL is still used. LL-01 is the one to look for, as LL-04 is targeted more towards the diesel engines.

Mobil 1 0w-40 has the LL-01 approval. German Castrol 0w-30 also does as does Valvoline Synpower 5w-40. I believe there is also a Penzoil Platnium that is listed as approved.

For BMW LL-04, I believe the Mobil 1 5w-30 ESP meet the spec and Valvoline is waiting for formal approval on their 5w-30 MST and 5w-40 HST.


I always recommend that people use the Mobil 1 0w-40 as it is the easiest to find. My second choice, which does not contain BMW approval is Mobil 1 5w-40 Diesel Truck and SUV, which has a robust HTHS of 4.1.

I am only discussing oils here in the US, there are many more overseas the meet the standard.

[nrgetic99]

Thanks to Clay and all for the excellent input.

I cannot believe I managed to ignore the HTHS requirement. Too long in North America I guess. And as rightly stated earlier, Energy Converving Claims tend to be mutually exclusive with HTHS over 3.5 hence the European minumum standard of 3.5 (I think one Ford application in Europe has 2.9 min still)

Anyway, how about this, unless you can find a 0W-20 with an HTHS over 3.5 , which is almost certainly never going to happen, then you should NOT use a 0W-20 in your BMW. My experience, however good, was with Toyota.

I really like the sound of the Mobil1 0W-40 as a good all around product but I am going to look for an Ester rich, 0W-30 based on all of my work back in the day in Europe and the very measurable benefit I saw in bench wear testing. Typically, this means a European oil or one particular domestic that I have used and mention before but I want to get a sample and pull it apart before I run with it. I note the Amsoil signature series has a quoted HTHS of 4.1 cP.

Almost certainly, any pseudo synthetics, however good at what they do, will not have Ester as they are designed to be synthetic 'performance' at a price somewhere between mineral and true synthetic price. And to be clear, those types of fluids can be very, very good.

Again, great input, sorry for my over sight but as always, and as mentioned, do your own reserearch.

One final point, if you do end up using a high performance Diesel engine oil in your gasoline vehicle and it is prioir to API CJ, be a little careful as the Phos can be over 0.1% wt and long term that is not so good for the Cat .

[vinuneuro]

Originally Posted by JCL

I don't see oils labelled LL-98, 01, or 04 any more. My BMW dealer here doesn't carry them, local parts stores don't carry them. Interestingly, in my latest vehicle owner's manual (535i) there is no reference to the LL oil spec. I suspect that BMW has quietly dropped it, possibly because it never got traction (figuratively speaking). Oil manufacturers weren't interested in another private test, I suspect. A3 is worthwhile, agreed. Do you have any information on the BMW LL standard that is recent, from BMW themselves?

That's because the North American oil sold at your dealer doesn't meet BMW's LL specs.

[nrgetic99]

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

That's because the North American oil sold at your dealer doesn't meet BMW's LL specs.

I am working with my German colleagues to get copy of the actual spec so that we can determine what oils do, or do not meet the requirements and we may be able to publish a list here.

[cary]

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

That's because the North American oil sold at your dealer doesn't meet BMW's LL specs.

Actually the BMW 5w-30 sold in North America meets the older LL-98 spec and ACEA A3, but does not meet the LL-01 spec. This is because it is a group III hydrocracked oil, not a Group IV PAO or Group V Ester oil as is required by BMW LL-01.

[vinuneuro]

Originally Posted by cary

Actually the BMW 5w-30 sold in North America meets the older LL-98 spec and ACEA A3, but does not meet the LL-01 spec. This is because it is a group III hydrocracked oil, not a Group IV PAO or Group V Ester oil as is required by BMW LL-01.

I thought LL-98 does not allow Group III oils either.

[cary]

LL-98 allows Group III, and the BMW badged Castrol oil sold in the US is a Group III (Form of TXT Softect I believe). Motul Japan has the specs on their website, and it lists the difference in the requirement.