Help Head gasket blown

[GT475]

Originally Posted by Islands52

Is it a 3.0 or a 4.4?

First off, you should be using BMW coolant and not Prestone. I'd also be getting a second opinion as a blown head gasket should have definitely had symptoms such as sludge in the oil...unless its a very minor leak, in which case a new head or block should not be needed...anyway, I would definitely get another opinion, or even two, before either spending $10K or sourcing a junkyard motor.

It is a 3.0 6 speed manual.

My wife came home one night complaining of not having heat at a stop light but getting it back when running.
I had check the coolant to find it below the low mark on the plunger. I top it off (about 1L) and since she had an appointment for the brakes, and the temp gage was steady at the middle, I figured it was Ok for now.

Last Saturday (we had the appointment yesterday), she complained again about the loss of heat. I checked again and sure enough, the plunger was low and when I top it off again, I notice the infamous brown liquid coming at the top. I asked about white smoke and sign of overheating and she said no. Outside temp was around 10deg C so maybe, it was enough to keep the engine cool enough but I would be surprised. If the engine was overheating, the temp sensor should have picked it up and should have shown a problem on the computer board at least.

I told her to drive easy and not to put compression on (manual tranny) and keep it low rev.

As for the sludge in the oil, well that has been a long time issue with this car. When it was new, I complained about the high oil consumption (my 5L FORD iron block consumes less oil than that engine) and BMW put it on their surveillance program only to find everything was normal.

Then one day (many years ago) I had to fill the oil as I do regularly between the schedule change to notice the inside of the oil cap was showing a funny thick whiteiss-browniss paste. They say it was normal for that engine.

I figured that the absence of white smoke probably comes from the gasket leak between the water passage and the oil (away from the combustion chamber). I have not seen what the oil looks like (most likely contaminated with coolant) but I still hope the oil pressure was higher than the coolant pressure and the oil leak into the coolant system more than the other way around.

We will see tomorrow. When I call 1 hour ago, they were about to remove the valve train.

Crossing my fingers.

I am not buying the block story either. They will put an helicoil in if the break or strip a thread and I will do it myself if I have too.

Marc

[vinuneuro]

Originally Posted by UCrewX5

Unless I am overlooking it, I don't see anywhere in the original poster's message about contaminated oil. Only a loss of coolant.

In the third line he said the X went in for "oil in prestone". I assumed oil in coolant is what he meant after Islands52 echoed my initial thought with the same interpretation.

[vinuneuro]

Originally Posted by GT475

It is a 3.0 6 speed manual.

My wife came home one night complaining of not having heat at a stop light but getting it back when running.
I had check the coolant to find it below the low mark on the plunger. I top it off (about 1L) and since she had an appointment for the brakes, and the temp gage was steady at the middle, I figured it was Ok for now.

Last Saturday (we had the appointment yesterday), she complained again about the loss of heat. I checked again and sure enough, the plunger was low and when I top it off again, I notice the infamous brown liquid coming at the top. I asked about white smoke and sign of overheating and she said no. Outside temp was around 10deg C so maybe, it was enough to keep the engine cool enough but I would be surprised. If the engine was overheating, the temp sensor should have picked it up and should have shown a problem on the computer board at least.

I told her to drive easy and not to put compression on (manual tranny) and keep it low rev.

As for the sludge in the oil, well that has been a long time issue with this car. When it was new, I complained about the high oil consumption (my 5L FORD iron block consumes less oil than that engine) and BMW put it on their surveillance program only to find everything was normal.

Then one day (many years ago) I had to fill the oil as I do regularly between the schedule change to notice the inside of the oil cap was showing a funny thick whiteiss-browniss paste. They say it was normal for that engine.

I figured that the absence of white smoke probably comes from the gasket leak between the water passage and the oil (away from the combustion chamber). I have not seen what the oil looks like (most likely contaminated with coolant) but I still hope the oil pressure was higher than the coolant pressure and the oil leak into the coolant system more than the other way around.

We will see tomorrow. When I call 1 hour ago, they were about to remove the valve train.

Crossing my fingers.

I am not buying the block story either. They will put an helicoil in if the break or strip a thread and I will do it myself if I have too.

Marc

When the headgasket fails, oil in the cooling system is usually moke likely because of the pressure difference between the two systems (like your situation).

The white stuff you see on your oil cap is the result of moisture. Indicates that you're making short-trips during which the engine can't reach operating temperature and burn excess moisture. If you're seeing that, having the oil separator changed before next winter would be something to think about, as that excess moisture freezes creating big problems. A more proactive solution would be to stop making short trips.

[Islands52]

Originally Posted by GT475

It is a 3.0 6 speed manual.

My wife came home one night complaining of not having heat at a stop light but getting it back when running.
I had check the coolant to find it below the low mark on the plunger. I top it off (about 1L) and since she had an appointment for the brakes, and the temp gage was steady at the middle, I figured it was Ok for now.

Last Saturday (we had the appointment yesterday), she complained again about the loss of heat. I checked again and sure enough, the plunger was low and when I top it off again, I notice the infamous brown liquid coming at the top. I asked about white smoke and sign of overheating and she said no. Outside temp was around 10deg C so maybe, it was enough to keep the engine cool enough but I would be surprised. If the engine was overheating, the temp sensor should have picked it up and should have shown a problem on the computer board at least.

I told her to drive easy and not to put compression on (manual tranny) and keep it low rev.

As for the sludge in the oil, well that has been a long time issue with this car. When it was new, I complained about the high oil consumption (my 5L FORD iron block consumes less oil than that engine) and BMW put it on their surveillance program only to find everything was normal.

Then one day (many years ago) I had to fill the oil as I do regularly between the schedule change to notice the inside of the oil cap was showing a funny thick whiteiss-browniss paste. They say it was normal for that engine.

I figured that the absence of white smoke probably comes from the gasket leak between the water passage and the oil (away from the combustion chamber). I have not seen what the oil looks like (most likely contaminated with coolant) but I still hope the oil pressure was higher than the coolant pressure and the oil leak into the coolant system more than the other way around.

We will see tomorrow. When I call 1 hour ago, they were about to remove the valve train.

Crossing my fingers.

I am not buying the block story either. They will put an helicoil in if the break or strip a thread and I will do it myself if I have too.

Marc

Well, good luck. I would still definitely look to another shop for an opinion...a shop warning you a head of time that they may damage the motor "looking for additional problems" is a red flag to me (although from your post looks like they are already doing the work). Also the 3.0 is a common motor, one they should be extremely familiar with by now.

I've only had one car blow a head gasket, an 89' Porsche Turbo S, and that was a $2500 job. I hope you manage to get in repaired as painlessly as possible.

As to the H2O temp gauge, BMW has been buffering those for years, so that they never show true coolant tempurature, and only go ed in the event of catastrophic failure. I recently bought a little gizmo called the Scangauge II from Amazon....its a $150 OBD 2 monitoring device and computer...it also will monitor coolant temp to the degree and save the highest value per day in memory...a worthwhile little device...and it matches the amber illumination color of our cars to boot.

http://www.scangauge.com/

[01 BMW_X5]

Originally Posted by Islands52

Is it a 3.0 or a 4.4?

First off, you should be using BMW coolant and not Prestone. I'd also be getting a second opinion as a blown head gasket should have definitely had symptoms such as sludge in the oil...unless its a very minor leak, in which case a new head or block should not be needed...anyway, I would definitely get another opinion, or even two, before either spending $10K or sourcing a junkyard motor.

Head gasket can be blown between cylinders/water jackets - no oil contamination.
You should be able to see exactly where head gasket was blown when cyl.head is removed.

Easy way out for me would have been to pull the head, replace the gasket and trade in the next day.

[GT475]

Originally Posted by Islands52

Well, good luck. I would still definitely look to another shop for an opinion...a shop warning you a head of time that they may damage the motor "looking for additional problems" is a red flag to me (although from your post looks like they are already doing the work). Also the 3.0 is a common motor, one they should be extremely familiar with by now.

I've only had one car blow a head gasket, an 89' Porsche Turbo S, and that was a $2500 job. I hope you manage to get in repaired as painlessly as possible.

As to the H2O temp gauge, BMW has been buffering those for years, so that they never show true coolant tempurature, and only go ed in the event of catastrophic failure. I recently bought a little gizmo called the Scangauge II from Amazon....its a $150 OBD 2 monitoring device and computer...it also will monitor coolant temp to the degree and save the highest value per day in memory...a worthwhile little device...and it matches the amber illumination color of our cars to boot.

http://www.scangauge.com/

Thank you Islands52,

Definitely hope to get that fix with minimum impact.

Thing is that we really have no choice now. Don't want to drive the car. Can't really sell it the way it is.
No trade in possible as any BMW dealer will know about the car. I do not want to sell it the way it is anyway. Plus it has no "head" anymore right now or almost...

Feel trapped like a rat.
The plan was to sell it before the winter but we first got caught with early snow (this is my wife winter car) and it was too late for the 335xi. We were told we should wait for the spring because of the US$ vs CDN$, the MSRP will drop in spring. So, we ended up keeping it a bit too long, I guess.

I will now get the convertible out of winter storage despite a bit of pot hole and winter sand on the streets. Unfortunately, looks like the Kenne Bell $ will go toward the bimmer gasket instead...

Will see but we like the X very much. It is been some how "reliable" despite some annoying little things over the years. Still drives like a charm.
Not very many 3.0 5 speed manual in the country.

I am planning to go to the dealer tomorrow while I am on business nearby and see for myself.

I just dusted off the "for sale" ad I had from the previous 530i we sold 7 years ago. Will bring it with me when we will get the car off the dealer.

Out of 4 cars we have, all of them been a "first year" production wintage so I guess we don't learn our lessons very well, don't we?

As a mechanical eng, I always had no fear of working on the Fords (2 Mustangs and 1 EDGE) but somehow the Bimmer always represented the cream of the cream for me in terms of automotive engineering so I been affraid to work on them.

Will let you know how it went.

And on top we need to have that rear passenger window fixed (see my other Help post from Sunday and got to have brake fixed.

Lucky buyer it will be...

Marc

[Islands52]

funny how familiarity makes you comfortable. I've had enough BMWs and had them in various states of disassembly that I feel comfortable working on them over all other makes...in fact none of my BMWs have had a problem serious enough for me to take to a shop in some years. I also do all my own maintenance.

You sometimes need some a few special tools, but really they are pretty straightforward to work on...you should tackle that window on your own...I've read the repair procedure and it does not seem too bad at all.

[X5 Meister]

Did you integrate the scangauge already? Can you write-up the installation? I'd be very interested to see the coolant temp setup.

Originally Posted by Islands52

Well, good luck. I would still definitely look to another shop for an opinion...a shop warning you a head of time that they may damage the motor "looking for additional problems" is a red flag to me (although from your post looks like they are already doing the work). Also the 3.0 is a common motor, one they should be extremely familiar with by now.

I've only had one car blow a head gasket, an 89' Porsche Turbo S, and that was a $2500 job. I hope you manage to get in repaired as painlessly as possible.

As to the H2O temp gauge, BMW has been buffering those for years, so that they never show true coolant tempurature, and only go ed in the event of catastrophic failure. I recently bought a little gizmo called the Scangauge II from Amazon....its a $150 OBD 2 monitoring device and computer...it also will monitor coolant temp to the degree and save the highest value per day in memory...a worthwhile little device...and it matches the amber illumination color of our cars to boot.

http://www.scangauge.com/

[Islands52]

Originally Posted by mgruber

Did you integrate the scangauge already? Can you write-up the installation? I'd be very interested to see the coolant temp setup.

Its' actually in my MCoupe, and I just have it in cell tel suction mount right now....the hard part is actually hiding the cable from the OBD2 port. The coolant temp works great...to the degree and no setup...just gives it to you in straight degrees F. Since the M has no OBC functions, I have it set to show RPM, Coolant temp F, MPG, and Voltage all on one screen.

[WolfX5]

I will echo Island52's comment about the BMW temperature gauges - complete crap in my opinion. They do NOT show true temperature, and will only peg to the right in a catastrophic situation (like your secondary "accessory" belt coming off).

However if all you want to see is the true coolant temperature you do NOT need to go to the work of buying and installing an OBD2 gauge. Just use the built-in diagnostic temperature reading in the cluster which is both real-time and accurate. Comes in handy when when you need to see true temperature (like when towing for example).

Instructions to access the onboard temperature functions (E53):
1. Turn your engine on
2. Press and hold the Control Check stalk sticking out of on your instrument cluster (the one to the right of the Trip Reset stalk)
3. OBC should show "Control Check OK".
4. Keep holding the Control Check stalk until "Test 01" appears.
5. Press the Trip Reset stalk until the last 5 digits of your VIN number appear. Sum all of these digits together (this is your "magic number")
6. Now press the Control Check stalk until "Test 19" appears.
7. Press the Trip Reset stalk until the number on the display matches the "magic number" you calculated above
8. With your correct "magic number" now appearing on the display, press the Control Check stalk. Nothing further will happen.
9. Cycle through your Control Check stalk until you cycle back around to "Test 07"
10. Depress the Trip Reset stalk and release it - your realtime coolant temperature will display in the instrument cluster.
(Normal operating temp for a 4.4i is approximately 108 degrees Celsius)
11. For all subsequent viewings now or in the future, you can SKIP steps 5,6,7, and 8 above (they only have to be done once)

Note: If you want realtime RPM instead of Temperature, press the Trip Reset stalk twice instead of once in step 10