Dealership estimates

[Weasel]

No, we do get raises, but trust me... we don't make as much as you would think. I get less than 20% of what the shop charges per hour. The master techs that have been there for over 14 YEARS gross almost 80k per year, but I make less than half of that.

Basically I was saying the hour rate per job, the "book time" is not set by the individual mechanic, or the dealer for that matter. It is set directly by BMW and we have no say over it... the parts department charges its standard markup (retail) to make their money... pay its employees. But the service shop charges pre-determined amounts for each task. And you're right there is a difference between charging a markup and charging "per hour" but what you don't understand is that the "per hour" is a set standard time per job task, and not actually by physical hour. This is necessary for uniform charges, otherwise the same job would greatly vary in price from one tech to another, just by talent alone... and if the techs were able to set their own prices, they would get so cut-throat! Everybody trying to undercut eachothers prices to steal customers, all the while trying to jack up the prices to get more money. That would be horrible! The current system is necessary! But like you said, you get what you pay for. BMW dealer costs more, but you get OEM parts installed properly and warranted by trained, qualified and certified techs that HAVE done it before. At an indy, its a roll of the dice for the quality of work performed.

I'll tell you from experience, a high percentile of independent mechanics look up the fault code, and replace whatever part it says. I can't tell you how many people came to the dealer from a local independent that specializes in German cars that had an O2 sensor fault and simply got new O2 sensors installed by them. Check engine light came back on, same fault. shop didn't know what to do. Sent them to us. It is usually not a fault with the sensor itself, but something it monitors. Like "bank 2 upstream O2 sensor, mixture too lean" they put a sensor, it simply has a vacuum leak! Fix with a hose or boot. They just don't have the resources or knowledge of the system in question to properly diagnose the cause of the fault. If you found a competent indy with good techs that can actually diagnose rather than "change parts" then by all means, give them your business... they deserve it!

But hopefully you come away from this with a better understanding of how the system works, why it has to work that way, and why YOU can't change it. Maybe one day you will make friends with a tech at the dealer that has spare time and is willing to do work out of his driveway, then he can give you a better price, and you get the benifit of someone that knows what they're doing... and can teach you a few things along the way. My personal friends that use me for work love that I teach them as I do the job... they eventually call me all proud that they were able to fix something themselves without needing help. And there are 3 local independent shops that I am personal friends with the owners of, that call me for advise/help. And the occasional Saturday side job their techs can't handle.

And Damager, thanks for the help trying to explain this!

[jmweb]

I've never experienced a mechanic that charges "book time". All mechanics here typically advertise their hourly rates someplace near the counter.

Then again, I've never gone to the BMW dealer for repairs, its too far away!

All that being said, my last trip to my INDY Mechanic kinda failed me. This was the first time but it did hapen. They said a creeking noise was from my rotors, mind you the noise doesn't sound like a rotor noise. Another mechanic today quickly looked at it and said its probably something that connects to my sway bar.

This was the first time my current INDY mechanic fucked up.

[Weasel]

The hourly charges they advertise near the counter is what they charge per hour... but the number of hours charged per job is that pesky "book time"... get it yet?????

And if they changed the wrong parts for what the complaint was... THAT is the case to make a stink over! They need to take their rotors back, refund your money for that and find the actual problem to fix. That should also be industry standard. If I miss-diagnose a vehicle and fix something that wasn't broken, meanwhile the original complaint wasn't fixed... then it's on ME. BMW will not pay me to NOT fix the car. It is the responsibility of the tech to find and fix the customers concern, and not by trial and error, but testing and diagnosing. If you change parts that don't fix the problem, you CAN NOT charge the customer to replace those parts... that was your mistake.

[jmweb]

I dunno, maybe its different here.

And I always got it, i just never thought it was ethical.

[jmweb]

No, it's at least a days wait to get BMW parts here.

Closest BMW charges an arm and a leg.

For instance.
BMW altenator at closest BMW dealer is ~$800 (according to INDY Mechanic).
BMW altenator in US BMW Dealer is $380.


Therefore I order my parts from the US, so my rotors are on a Fedex truck coming this way. Had the mechanic installed them and it did not fix my problem, I would have received my money back on the mechanical work. Least, I'd hope so.

They don't charge me anything when they can't determine anything so....but that only happened once.

[Weasel]

well maybe the only good thing to come of this thread beaten down, and not even by the original poster mind you... is for you to correct and redirect your complaints from the dealer, who just did things "by the book" to the independent that changed the wrong parts, not fixing the problem, and charged you for it... Ho wcould they let it go back to you not fixed? They should have caught it on the test drive... "hey boss, its still doing the same thing!, oh well... let them come back and buy something else"?????

[Weasel]

Ok, I posted that last reply before seeing the one you just posted...

But "according to indy mechanic" tells me they are doing what they do best, and charging 100% markup on parts they have to order... most of them do that, including the ones I know.

[jmweb]

definately a possibility, but then again the closest BMW dealer is known to have outrageous prices.

i.e. the cost of a rotor through them would be $400 and if I want they will give me a package dealer for the brake shoes and sensor too.

Through US of A, its 1/4th that.

[jmweb]

and thats me calling the closest dealer for a comparision.

[Weasel]

Well I don't know what changes the pricing soo much from US dealers to Canadian... Wouldn't think it would have to do with them getting parts from past the border, I ordered quite a few things from online that came from Canada, and shipping was normally priced. And I'm way down in the south! (New Orleans) Just doesn't make sense. I would ask them why, see if they can explain that one. Even have the price quote from the US dealer in hand (via fax) for part #'s and pricing reference. I'd be curious on that one.