New '05 4.4 owner

[zachthefcr]

Thanks, cobra94563. That is heartening. I did buy the car partially because of the rated gas mileage. Zach

[sprocket1200]

I am not saying that all seasons are not improving as I am confident that they are, but they can only be as good as a winter tire by giving up part of their all season ability. as CR states the treadlife is horrible which is most likely attributed to a softer compound which is good for cold weather traction, funny how that works...

I would be very pleased if everyone bought grabber HTS. they will be better than your old all season tires b/c yes they are an improvement over the old a/s technology you are currently using, so you will rate them better. without testing many tires you won't know the different of what is available, but it will be better than what you had.

when you crash into me in cold or winter conditions, i will be pointing out that they are NOT winter tires and that there was only 500,000 miles reported on the tirerack ratings (vs say 66 Million for Michelins) and you thought that would rate them #1. (at 25,000 miles per report that is only 20 people...)

I will also be having this all documented for the insurance company and they already know what the facts are. they support winter tire use...

[sprocket1200]

I just read through the tirerack review on the Grabber HTS. people are experiencing bizarre vibrations issues with this tire. once guy even noticed the severe increase in gas consumption. I would avoid these tires, the risk is too great.

[anerbe]

Guy give it up. Your first reponse was enough to laugh off and not respond, but this second one takes the cake as being way out in left field. Now it's about bashing HTS? Stick with the original topic, son.

Let me break it down so we can organize the topics here (and for other members to skip as it has no relation to the original thread).

For everyone else
*Snows are great. If you can afford them and the added storage space, Get them. I loved mine on the M3. With some compromise in ice/heavy snow, if cost is a big issue, you don't want to change out tires twice a year, or carry two sets of wheels, a new set of highly rated A/S are an alternative.

Tirerack Ratings:
Michelin - #2 with the all new Latitude tour in 2008, has compaints about handling, cupping/flatspotting, poor traction, noisy, etc... with some people scoring 5's and 6's. However majority found them good, thus the rating is high. If the HTS problem was so wide spread, the rankings would be much lower. Overall ratings do matter. Tire manufacturing has a lot of inherent variation in the process, and you will see some bad tires out there.

I guess you won't be picking up the all new Michelin Latitudes either....tires must suck with half the feedback/mileage of HTS and some crappy reviews. Being #2 under the HTS AND with half the reported miles. They must be twice as crappy That must make it even more crappy than Michelin's older tire, the LTX M/S. Ouch.

Just stick with the Michelin LTX M/S guy. It has 67 million miles - plenty of field time. Be happy with your 10 year old technology

Insurance claim:
Your whole idea of making a report to insurance is just absurd and quite comical. I'm embarrased to be responding to such a comment, so I put this in italics. So you'd like to note that every vehicle that comes from the factory is a road hazard in the winter, as no vehicle comes from the factory with winters. Shame on BMW for not making winters a standard feature! Add to your insurance report every car that's older than 5 years, as the older technology surely isn't as good as the current vehicles out. Ban vehicles that have longer stopping distances, because if they could stop faster, they wouldn't have hit you. They should have upgraded to Brembos. Everyone should. You should, or else you aren't the safest. I'm contacting my insurace to let them know 1. you should have upgraded your brakes. I'd compromise with upgraded Ceramic pads and SS lines. it's not that much money since you can afford winters... Sure they aren't a legal requirement, but knowing you don't have the safest vehicle on the road has enraged me. While you are at it, strip down your interior. All that added weight is endagering myself and motorists around you......

Conclusion:
I'm done with you. It's getting old. To calm your fears and to stop subjecting the forum to this nonsense, I give you this - although a long shot, if I ever find myself driving around your area during winter time (damn any time - I don't have upgraded brakes too), I'll be sure to PM you, so you can park the car in the garage and lock up your doors till I pass with my brand new Michelin MXV4's, which are a threat to everyone on the road when under 40F. Warn your friends and neighbors as well. Peace

[anerbe]

Latitude tour....what a crappy tire. It's also 40% higher cost.

It is now 140% worse than the HTS.

[sprocket1200]

you need to do your homework. I have not bashed the hts based on personal experience. i only investigated what other users have said. maybe your experience with them has been different. please tell us what you have found about these amazing tires.

funny you mention the ltx, they are always highly rated when tested against other new technology. as for mxv4, good choice, i use them too, just not under 45F and certainly not at 40F.

you have also not mentioned any literature. if thousands of actual stats don't matter to you then just just ignore this last part. Quebec has documented that the 10% of the drivers who are using a/s (the other 90% on winters) in the winter cause 38% of the accidents. let alone the traffic jams, near misses, blocked roads, etc. they have mandated that passenger vehicles and taxis keep them on until March 15. now the CAA (AAA) has released a statement that drivers would be better off keeping them on until April 15. the vast majority european drivers have been doing this for years. Maybe I am not the only one who has experience like this.

but, hey, they are not as good a driver as you are...

[sprocket1200]

here, a link with a few more people that have relevant experience...

Quebec's mandatory winter tire law starts Monday

if you find a link where people are stating that they have worse performance in winter on winter tires, I would love to read that.

I know CR rated a/s and winter, but they did not state the temperature at which the testing was done...

[anerbe]

Had HTS on my previous vehicle (Grand Cherokee). Purchased based off the good reviews from the publications, and was pleasantly surprised. Think that's more "homework" from your "I would avoid them" comments. You've never owned nor driven with them, telling others not to buy from individual online responses, while the responses as a whole say they are great? That's bashing without a foot to stand on. You're doing homework for a class you aren't enrolled in.

I had LTX's on my 97 Expedition 10 years ago. They were great tires and I'm sure they still perform. However, if Michelin didn't develop better technology in 10 years and are charging more for their new product, the company's product portfolio group ought to be fired. No problems from my side with the LTX. It's just an older product, where the successor to this line should be better.

Lastly, government regulations regarding winter tires have been around in other countries for a while. Quebec's "newly approved" regulation isn't groundbreaking. Statistics like this can be severly generalized and manipulated to prove a point. I don't like stats without understanding the variation. Was the environment the same for all accidents? Were the vehicles the same? etc.... I find this study must less controlled then tire rack's testing. I'm sure if we were kind enough to ask, we can find out the temperature during testing. I assume any winter testing would be done under 45F, or else, what's the point? Do we have to ask if their summer tire testing was done in 10F weather? Probably not.

You don't need a passed regulation to tell you that winter tires are better than A/S in wintery conditions. Don't know why you keep arguing this. Winter tires are great. All season are capable in certain winter conditions, thus are an alternative for certain drivers in certain locations. Drivers are not screwed with A/S if they have to drive in 40F dry and sunny weather in Texas. Get over it.

[v10rick]

Congrats

If you live in Bethesda MD and drive mostly in that area you don't need snow tires IMO.

The X5 will amaze you...with the snow amounts we experience here.

I live in Bluemont VA and drive on icy mountain roads with the stock tires...not a single issue during the past 3 winters.