SPARK PLUGS

[c4racer]

Originally Posted by MESTRE

Hello everyone!!! I've been reading this thread and wondering if this could be my problem, if it is, then it is proof that you should really spend the extra money and get "oem bmw recommended", because I got my plugs replaced about 4k miles ago from the original plugs at 117k miles to the bosh platinum +4 plugs, at first it worked fine just like the oem, and I found it very hard to believe that the recommended plugs were any more special then the regular off the shelf bosh, now I'm stuck with a problem, my car does not want to start, it start having a hard starting in the morning, and now does not want to start at all, the fuel filter is brand new, replaced it with the plugs, fuel pump works, checked crank sensor, cam sensor, everything seems to work fine, but the darn car won't start, now I'm considering going to get NGK's recommended plugs and try. Did anyone ever have any similar issue or any ideas if I should look for anything else.


Thanks everyone,



2002 x5 4.4i

no-start is not typically related to spark plugs....

[MESTRE]

Hello again!!

First of all thanks for the reply c4racer!!!

I was also reluctant to believe that they were the cause of my not starting problem, but I checked crankshaft and camshaft sensors, all the relays, checked fuel pump, and fuel filter is new, so after reading these threads I thought about removing my plugs to check and guess what!?!?! Only two of my plugs still look good, and every other looked worse then the next, one of them was actually broken, (center electrode lose inside the threaded part), I can spin it around. Unfortunately I won't be able to get new ones until next week, but I'll follow BMW's recommendation this time and I'll let everyone know if it actually worked.

Thanks again everyone.

[JCL]

While it is certainly possible that several real Bosch plugs failed, I would wager that you unknowingly purchased counterfeit parts.

Counterfeit automotive maintenance items account for up to 10% of parts sold in the US in certain high-moving categories, according to some studies. Back in 2006 it was estimated to be a $3b industry in the US alone. Parts often fail within several hundred miles.

This is not a reason to beat on Bosch plugs (since NGK is targeted at least as often, as are AC, Motorcraft, and others), but it is a reason to purchase critical parts from the dealer. Sure, they are more expensive. You are likely to avoid this particular issue, however. Remember too that the retailers won't know where the parts came from, they will just know that they got a good price. The counterfeiting is at the manufacturing and distribution level, not at the retail level.

[MESTRE]

Thanks for the eye opening advice, will definitely pay attention to new parts bought, is there anyway to check on differences between counterfeit and actual real product???

Thanks again.

[m5james]

Originally Posted by JCL

While it is certainly possible that several real Bosch plugs failed, I would wager that you unknowingly purchased counterfeit parts.

Counterfeit automotive maintenance items account for up to 10% of parts sold in the US in certain high-moving categories, according to some studies. Back in 2006 it was estimated to be a $3b industry in the US alone. Parts often fail within several hundred miles.

This is not a reason to beat on Bosch plugs (since NGK is targeted at least as often, as are AC, Motorcraft, and others), but it is a reason to purchase critical parts from the dealer. Sure, they are more expensive. You are likely to avoid this particular issue, however. Remember too that the retailers won't know where the parts came from, they will just know that they got a good price. The counterfeiting is at the manufacturing and distribution level, not at the retail level.

I've bought crappy radiators (another cracked neck), waterpumps (counter guy insisted the plastic impellar is all they had) and a thermostat (3wk old replacement failed and seized shut 2hrs from my house) from the dealership before when I didn't have the time to wait for them in the mail when my 7 overheated on a jobsite. I find it hard to believe that BMW is buying them from anyone else but the same people. Distributors are everywhere, they goto the mom and pop shops along w/ the dealerships. Sometimes it just comes down to brand, not the retailer. BMW is trying to buy low and sell high, just like everyone else.

Originally Posted by MESTRE

Thanks for the eye opening advice, will definitely pay attention to new parts bought, is there anyway to check on differences between counterfeit and actual real product???

Thanks again.

In regards to JCL's reply, that is the question of the day!

[JCL]

Originally Posted by m5james

I've bought crappy radiators (another cracked neck), waterpumps (counter guy insisted the plastic impellar is all they had) and a thermostat (3wk old replacement failed and seized shut 2hrs from my house) from the dealership before when I didn't have the time to wait for them in the mail when my 7 overheated on a jobsite. I find it hard to believe that BMW is buying them from anyone else but the same people. Distributors are everywhere, they goto the mom and pop shops along w/ the dealerships. Sometimes it just comes down to brand, not the retailer. BMW is trying to buy low and sell high, just like everyone else.

I fully agree that you can get broken parts from any source. That isn't the same as counterfeit parts, though. Plastic impellors aren't a sign of counterfeit waterpumps, they were the original design (unless the box actually says 'impellar', which is a dead giveaway!) BMW dealers generally get their parts from the local BMW distributor (BMWNA in your case), it is part of their dealer agreement. Of course the parts cost more from the dealership, that is a given, but at least you know the distribution channel. For items like tires or wiper blades, no reason to use the dealer IMO. For items like oil filters and spark plugs (which are most often counterfeited due to the low barriers to entry for a small-scale manufacturer, and the high sales volumes possible) the price of failure is higher, so there is some reason to want to manage the risk. If you have a trusted supplier, and you know where they buy all of their parts, great. If not, the dealer will be safer than a 3rd party shop. Again, the dealer will cost more, it is a fact of life. If you choose to take a chance, you will very likely be OK, since there are still more authentic parts than fake ones, and you will save some money. That's cool. For some, it is the ultimate goal.

I don't agree that BMW is buying low and selling high like everyone else. I work for a dealer of engines and related parts (not BMW). We deal with fake parts regularly, often when a premature failure comes in as part of a parts warranty claim. If the parts come in a box labelled NKG, AC Declo, or Bosh, then it is easy to spot. I actually saw a picture of one labelled FROD once, and that was worth a laugh. Often, through, it isn't easy to spot and you have to cut oil filters open to count the pleats, etc. Anyone notice the photo of the two plugs at the start of this thread? One is apparently OEM and one is aftermarket, with the same part number. Notice that they have a different number of ribs on the porcelain insulator? Want to bet the manufacturer of the fake product can't count the number of ribs? Or, maybe it isn't fake and Bosch just decided that the non-OEM version didn't need as much insulation, so that they could product the same part cheaper for a different distribution channel.

[FSETH]

Originally Posted by m5james

I've bought crappy radiators (another cracked neck), waterpumps (counter guy insisted the plastic impellar is all they had) and a thermostat (3wk old replacement failed and seized shut 2hrs from my house) from the dealership before when I didn't have the time to wait for them in the mail when my 7 overheated on a jobsite.

We all know BMW's cooling system components are not built to last anymore.

JCL, what do yuo think the odds are of buying fake parts from a major chain store like NAPA, Autozone, Advance Auto, O'Reilly's and so on. Also, what about places like Bavarian Autosport and Amazon?

[JCL]

Originally Posted by FSETH

We all know BMW's cooling system components are not built to last anymore.

JCL, what do you think the odds are of buying fake parts from a major chain store like NAPA, Autozone, Advance Auto, O'Reilly's and so on. Also, what about places like Bavarian Autosport and Amazon?

Not living in the US, I don't have sufficient personal experience with any of those vendors to have an opinion on any one of them.


In general:

• I would trust big name chain stores over independents, all things being equal (unless I knew the buyers at the independent), but not if they are discount chain stores.
• I would trust stores that use fewer (or trusted) distributors over those that shop for deals, buy cheap lots or seconds, etc. I tend to buy from suppliers that I have history with, on the basis that past performance is the best indicator of future behaviour
• I would be more worried about plugs, oil filters, air filters, brake pads, rotors, and so on than parts that have lower volumes, and thus aren't as worth duplicating by a scammer
• I inspect parts that I install prior to installing them
• I won't buy anything off eBay. Anything.

Just remember that while it is bad to pay too much for something, it is worse to pay too little. I think people sometimes forget that.

[MESTRE]

How do you find out what heat range your car calls for???

[m5james]

Originally Posted by c4racer

no-start is not typically related to spark plugs....

You've got a whole other issue brother. Mestre, get the NGK Plat's at your local Autozone or whatever and if the new plugs don't change anything, try unplugging the MAF and see if it fires up.