Looking for steering wheel braking shudder problem

[TurnAround]

Been searching and reading.

I have the same steering wheel shudder problem as many folks apparently do when braking at higher speeds. My hope is that there may be a consensus on the root of the problem in the steering or suspension components. I'm bummed that my X5 feels like my '69 Chevy Nova braking at speed. I won't sell my X for a very long time, so I refuse to give up on this bimmer, but I'd love to fix it in the mean time and without too many $$$.

What I have to contribute:
- '03 E53 3.0i 56k miles. Orig owner.
- Personally replaced the brake pads several times. To try different no dust pads. Not because of any issues. Currently on Axxis Deluxe pads from Zechausen Racing.
- Last job, replaced the rotors with a set from Dave as well. Smooth... no drillings or slots.
- New Conti tires with 132 19" rims. Very well balanced. Also have a set of 18" Y-spokes with Hakka snow tires for winter. Car shudders with either set. Also shuddered with old Michelins. Wheels / tires appear to make no difference. Shudder always there.
- Shudder was never there with the factory OEM Jurid / Pagid "dust yer but off" pads. Only showed up with the various low dust pads I've tried.
- Dealer replaced one of the steering joint parts.. sorry... can't remember which one. Made no difference.

My personal belief is that all E53's have high potential for this issue and that it is brought about by either switching to low dust brake pads, or, may happen to OEM pad owners that don't brake hard enough to burn off the deposits. Low dust pads don't generate enough heat in normal driving to burn off 'normal' deposits. To be clear.. the deposits are not the problem. They are only the trigger. I think a loosely designed steering and or suspension system is just waiting for veeeery slight vibrations from the brakes, which then amplify in the 'loose' susp components via chaos math theory reaction. Factory OEM high dust pads burn off the debris (and the rotors) to prevent the problem from every showing.

I'm thinking.. we may be hosed here because being lucky enough to come across the bad steering or suspension parts and replacing them simply carries the same high likelihood that the problem will still be there.. its design into the parts. They're performing .. as designed. The only viable fix may be to go back to high dust OEM pads.

But, in the event that its possible to get a 'good' set of replacement steering or susp parts, it might be worth the try. Any feedback appreciated. Thanks!

P.S. I've never experienced this issue on either of my Z3's, and they both have the low dust Axxis pads.

[projectz]

warped rotors?

[zerochief]

Originally Posted by TurnAround

I have the same steering wheel shudder problem as many folks apparently do when braking at higher speeds. My hope is that there may be a consensus on the root of the problem in the steering or suspension components.

Replacing the control arms solved that issue for me.

[TurnAround]

Originally Posted by zerochief

Replacing the control arms solved that issue for me.

Thanks man. Even though I've personally replace the suspension on my Z3 Coupe with a TCK kit, I'm afraid I'm still somewhat "steering and suspension part name challenged" for the components I have not worked on yet. Can you tell me (or show with a pic or link) where the control arms are and what they control (susp or steering)? I'd like to learn more. Thanks so much!

[djbock]

Originally Posted by zerochief

Replacing the control arms solved that issue for me.

RealOEM.com BMW E53 X5 3.0i Frnt axle support,wishbone/tension strut


Part #10.

[rocky1536]

Definitely the control arms..

[TurnAround]

Originally Posted by djbock

RealOEM.com BMW E53 X5 3.0i Frnt axle support,wishbone/tension strut


Part #10.

Excellent. Thanks!
Seems like just replacing the bushings would do it. I wonder if that would cost less to have done. Or.. I guess it could cost more actually, since they'd be spending extra time on labor to press out the bushing and reinstall a new one.

I'll check with the dealer. Thanks again (everybody!)

[dkl]

I also have these Axxis Deluxe pads from Zechausen Racing on my '04 3.0i paired with Zimmermann rotors. The car have a bit over 63k miles. Pads/rotors have about 10k miles. No issues thus far. There's no way I'm going back to the dusty OEM pads.

[HPIA4v2]

does it shudder only when you brake hard (and only in the beginning)? I think I have that, once I replaced my pads to Hawk.
Also no shudder for me when I brake normal/light.

[TurnAround]

Originally Posted by HPIA4v2

does it shudder only when you brake hard (and only in the beginning)? I think I have that, once I replaced my pads to Hawk.
Also no shudder for me when I brake normal/light.

It only shudders above 55 to 60. Light or hard braking makes little difference. Its all about heat. The high speed of the rotor means the sliiigggghhhtt bit of unburned deposits on the pads and rotors can trigger their trademark vibration, which the steering wheel picks up on and amplifies (badly). Brake lightly and longer, or brake hard and sudden.. and you'll generate enough heat in the pads and rotors that the deposits are no longer 'chuddering' past and now 'flow' with the braking action. Vibration goes away after 4 or 5 seconds. Drive for a minute and cool the parts... the whole thing starts over again when braking again.

The reason new pads and or rotors appears to fix the problem is.. they have no deposits on them yet. It takes a few thousand miles. In other words.. I have literally.. removed the pads after the shudder showed up, sanded them lightly on the belt sander, reinstalled, and the shudder was gone for 3,000 miles. Then.. eventually.. it comes back. Rather than go back to high dust pads I'm seriously considering just prying the pads back a bit once a year and running some sand paper on them. I have to swap the snow wheels out twice a year anyhoo, so what the..