Transmission Reliability

[Quicksilver]

My suggestion is the same as it was before
"There have been so many transmission fights pro and con
about changing the fluid that no one will ever agree.
Just do a search and see what I mean.........

This discussion has been going on since day one and the failure rate
of transmissions based on the "lifetime" fluids" issue
or change it conclusion has never met a formal complaint
criteria against BMW period.

Originally Posted by willgabriel

This is a great explanation for why we should change the transmission fluid every 50k miles. Thank you. Additionally, I think it provides further evidence that could (and should) be submitted in a formal complaint against BMW as they have insisted before the newest X5's were produced, that the transmission fluids were "lifetime" fluids. As such, they should bear a great portion of the financial burden incurred for any 2000-2008 BMW X5 transmission that has failed before, say, 150k miles.

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

My suggestion is the same as it was before
"There have been so many transmission fights pro and con
about changing the fluid that no one will ever agree.
Just do a search and see what I mean.........

This discussion has been going on since day one and the failure rate
of transmissions based on the "lifetime" fluids" issue
or change it conclusion has never met a formal complaint
criteria against BMW period.

And what are those "criteria?"

[papasmurf]

Originally Posted by ncsucarjock

I"m sorry you don't have the V8. One, I can't drive a manual, due to knee issues. 5 speed isn't an issue, so if you want to compare apples to apples, you have to do an automatic 3.0...

And then...lets put 6000# behind it, and head for the mountains. I think you'll find the 3.0 becomes very labored with that, manual or automatic. As I tow between 3000-7000 miles a year with that load... That's a pretty crucial measurement for me.

Back to the original posters question about changing fluid, this is all I can say. I've been through mechanics school...

No fluid lasts forever. They *all* break down. We know that transmissions are one of the most expensive items in a car, and yet, we dont' want to perform basic fluid changes because manufacturers have trained the public that "maintenance" is bad, and should be avoided - a perfect car would run perfectly forever, with zero maintenance. After coming back down to earth from the space dream, let's realize that all fluids - cooling, oil, transmission, differential, transfer case, power steering fluid, *all* degrade. There are recommended intervals for most of these. In my opinion (and this is *just* my opinion) regular fluid changes of all fluids are crucial to longevity. This does not mean I advocate 3000 mile oil changes, but I do recommend using some common sense.

I use this rule when it comes to automatic transmissions:
1) fluid breaks down, more in heavy use situations. Changing every 30,000 - 50,000 miles with a good quality compatible synthetic is a must do, regardless of what any manufacturer says.

2) fluid "flushes" are BAD juju. This is when they use a machine to pump your old fluid out, and new fluid in. The power for doing this is provided by the pump on the machine. I've heard of many instances where this procedure has damaged transmissions, probably due to excessive pump pressure.

3) If you disconnect the transmission line at the cooler, and start the engine, using the transmission pump to pump out fluid, this is an acceptable means of "pumping" the fluid out. This will allow a more complete fluid change, but it takes a lot longer, because you need to stop every 1/2 gallon (two quarts) and refill the transmission pan. On the BMW X5, at least on my V8, this is not easy to do. I prefer to just drop the entire pan, remove the filter, check for any excessive metal or sediment (and at 50k, I found none), replace the fluid, and call it good.

I will change again at 100k miles, and probably 150 and 200. For the record, for those that have changed fluid every 30-50k religiously, I've not heard of a transmission dying. If there's is one that has failed, I'd be pretty surprised, and willing to blame it on an improperly made part or assembly.

By and large though, transmissions are pretty simple devices. Sure, they have more gears, and electronic controls, but the basics have not changed since the first automatics came out more than 50 years ago. And regular fluid changes were required for decades before this whole "non-maintenance" scheme started appearing in the 90's.

For the record, I also change my engine oil every 10k miles, and the differential fluid every 50k, and the transfer case fluid every 50k as well. All of these are synthetic fluids, if they were conventional, I'd change more frequently, but I don't like conventional fluids, and dont' run them in any of my vehicles.

Also worth noting, changing your brake fluid every 2-3 years is part of required maintenance, and so is changing your antifreeze about the same time.

Do all this, along with plugs, filters, keeping it clean, attending to any leaks, and you'll be shocked how long a well maintained vehicle will run.

First trans in my X5 died on the previous owner in under 50k miles. Personally, I'm doing fluid changes at either every 30 or 50k.

[Quicksilver]

Read the threads you will find that there are no criteria
at this point that demonstrates the need for a formal
complaint regarding the issues with BMW X5 transmissions.
Sorry but those are the facts.

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...tion-suit.html

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

Read the threads you will find that there are no criteria
at this point that demonstrates the need for a formal
complaint regarding the issues with BMW X5 transmissions.
Sorry but those are the facts.

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...tion-suit.html

Well, you began that thread thinking there were criteria. Of course, recall is not the same as a mere complaint. I'd have to seriously question the "position" of anyone who would be so overconfident in stating there were no criteria for a complaint in this issue. In fact, considering the numerous transmission failures due in part to the owner's leaving the transmission alone as a direct result of BMW's insistence/position (that they since have changed their minds on with newer models) that the X5 transmission fluid is a lifetime fluid that should not be changed ... that alone is enough criteria to at least file a complaint. It seems like it'd be up to the courts to decide if the complaint had merit, not people on a message board who may or may not have the best interest in mind of the poor soul who is out $6k in part because BMW wrongly believed/stated that the transmission fluid on the X5 was a lifetime fluid needing no changing ... ask Toyota, Ford (in the 70's), etc if a cost/benefit analysis ethos doesn't eventually come back to bite you when enough people say, "enough is enough!"

[Quicksilver]

If you read my thread you would have found that the whole
thing was tongue and cheek based on the countless
"not going anywhere" transmission threads which have
been posted year after year.

I understand your argument.I was just trying to keep
you from pissing in the rain regarding the so called numerous
transmission failures due in part to the owner's leaving
the transmission alone poppycock.

As I said read the threads. You will find there is no
consistent evidence to support your argument one way
or the another. But be my guess. Have at it.

Regards

Originally Posted by willgabriel

Well, you began that thread thinking there were criteria. Of course, recall is not the same as a mere complaint. I'd have to seriously question the "position" of anyone who would be so overconfident in stating there were no criteria for a complaint in this issue. In fact, considering the numerous transmission failures due in part to the owner's leaving the transmission alone as a direct result of BMW's insistence/position (that they since have changed their minds on with newer models) that the X5 transmission fluid is a lifetime fluid that should not be changed ... that alone is enough criteria to at least file a complaint. It seems like it'd be up to the courts to decide if the complaint has merit, not people on a message board who may or may not have the poor soul who is out $6k in part because BMW wrongly believed/stated that the transmission fluid on the X5 was a lifetime fluid needing no changing ... ask Toyota, Ford (in the 70's), etc if a cost/benefit analysis ethos doesn't eventually come back to bite you when enough people say, "enough is enough!"

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

If you read my thread you would have found that the whole
thing was tongue and cheek based on the countless
"not going anywhere" transmission threads which have
been posted year after year.

I understand your argument.I was just trying to keep
you from pissing in the rain regarding the so called numerous
transmission failures due in part to the owner's leaving
the transmission alone poppycock.

As I said read the threads. You will find there is no
consistent evidence to support your argument one way
or the another. But be my guess. Have at it.

Regards

Okay, I get your point. However, let's take a clear, fair look at the criteria for a formal complaint in this case: ONE person has to have experienced a transmission failure they feel is connected to BMW's alleged negligence in calling the fluid in their transmissions "lifetime fluids," and be willing to write it down, sign it, and send it to BMW NA. Of course, there in fact is not only one, but seemingly hundreds if not thousands of people who would fit this criteria ... the amount and "consistency of evidence" are to be collected outside of just this website, and proved or disproved in a courtroom (or in mediation), not in the analysis of threads on one discussion board.

While my transmission has not failed, I am interested to hear what my first cousin (who works as a corporate attorney who often represents Toyota - imagine that?!) says about this issue. My .02: criteria for a formal complaint have been met, and a complaint should be filed if for no other reason than to "encourage" BMW (ie. rattle their cage a bit) to be more accountable for giving bad rec's regarding their substandard products sold at a HUGE mark-up, but not supported based on shoddy (pathetic) customer support for a part(s) that better last longer than 150k miles if they are going to be so definite about it not needing proper servicing because it is a "lifetime" part.

[kally]

Just picked up my x5 from the tranny rebuild today - i cant believe it failed after only 150k klm.

My wife uses as daily driver 4.4 2001 black with cream leather trim - beautifull car, ive put 20inch 4.6 is rims on it looks great

the misses went to get some groceries and the car was on a slight incline wouldnt engage in reverse towed it back drove to mechanics and short story is torque converter failed so basically had the whole trans rebuilt no gears but all new clutches new torquey and seals etc - fortunatley the internal gears were in good nick otherwise would have required a full rebuild would hve been another $3k !

My trans specialist said hes done about 6 of them in these things now i dont know but this 150 k and rebuild the trans is kinda bad i love the car but when you are buying a quality european car you should not have these issues and if you do the company should definatley offer some sort of compensation.

Unfortunatley doesnt reflect well on company really.

aside from this I love the car.

[m5james]

8-10 might be a stretch, but I definately don't see how Supernatural only came up w/ 1 car length. Is this a 3.0 jealousy thing


FYI - Willgabriel and Quicksilver...you don't need to quote each other when your reply is directly after one another, we already know since your answers are back to back. Quote is for when you're replying to the guy like 5 posts up, on another page, the OP, etc...you're killing me on my phone trying to read this stuff

[cheappc]

Lets get serious guys, the transmissions are bad, lets be real here, I have my indi mechanic that has been servicing all of my BMW's for years and he told me "before" I bought my X that the transmissions fail... to make sure I really want to buy the "X"..

Also, another customer of mine who owns a car lot, told me the same thing, these are 2 people who dont know each other.

Now think about it, these people that their transmissions are going bad are not even on this board! so we may have a big problem here, just that not enough people are on boards like these to report them all....

my .02