Transmission Reliability

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

My suggestion is the same as it was before
"There have been so many transmission fights pro and con
about changing the fluid that no one will ever agree.
Just do a search and see what I mean.........

This discussion has been going on since day one and the failure rate
of transmissions based on the "lifetime" fluids" issue
or change it conclusion has never met a formal complaint
criteria against BMW period.

And what are those "criteria?"

[Quicksilver]

Read the threads you will find that there are no criteria
at this point that demonstrates the need for a formal
complaint regarding the issues with BMW X5 transmissions.
Sorry but those are the facts.

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...tion-suit.html

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

Read the threads you will find that there are no criteria
at this point that demonstrates the need for a formal
complaint regarding the issues with BMW X5 transmissions.
Sorry but those are the facts.

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...tion-suit.html

Well, you began that thread thinking there were criteria. Of course, recall is not the same as a mere complaint. I'd have to seriously question the "position" of anyone who would be so overconfident in stating there were no criteria for a complaint in this issue. In fact, considering the numerous transmission failures due in part to the owner's leaving the transmission alone as a direct result of BMW's insistence/position (that they since have changed their minds on with newer models) that the X5 transmission fluid is a lifetime fluid that should not be changed ... that alone is enough criteria to at least file a complaint. It seems like it'd be up to the courts to decide if the complaint had merit, not people on a message board who may or may not have the best interest in mind of the poor soul who is out $6k in part because BMW wrongly believed/stated that the transmission fluid on the X5 was a lifetime fluid needing no changing ... ask Toyota, Ford (in the 70's), etc if a cost/benefit analysis ethos doesn't eventually come back to bite you when enough people say, "enough is enough!"

[Quicksilver]

If you read my thread you would have found that the whole
thing was tongue and cheek based on the countless
"not going anywhere" transmission threads which have
been posted year after year.

I understand your argument.I was just trying to keep
you from pissing in the rain regarding the so called numerous
transmission failures due in part to the owner's leaving
the transmission alone poppycock.

As I said read the threads. You will find there is no
consistent evidence to support your argument one way
or the another. But be my guess. Have at it.

Regards

Originally Posted by willgabriel

Well, you began that thread thinking there were criteria. Of course, recall is not the same as a mere complaint. I'd have to seriously question the "position" of anyone who would be so overconfident in stating there were no criteria for a complaint in this issue. In fact, considering the numerous transmission failures due in part to the owner's leaving the transmission alone as a direct result of BMW's insistence/position (that they since have changed their minds on with newer models) that the X5 transmission fluid is a lifetime fluid that should not be changed ... that alone is enough criteria to at least file a complaint. It seems like it'd be up to the courts to decide if the complaint has merit, not people on a message board who may or may not have the poor soul who is out $6k in part because BMW wrongly believed/stated that the transmission fluid on the X5 was a lifetime fluid needing no changing ... ask Toyota, Ford (in the 70's), etc if a cost/benefit analysis ethos doesn't eventually come back to bite you when enough people say, "enough is enough!"

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

If you read my thread you would have found that the whole
thing was tongue and cheek based on the countless
"not going anywhere" transmission threads which have
been posted year after year.

I understand your argument.I was just trying to keep
you from pissing in the rain regarding the so called numerous
transmission failures due in part to the owner's leaving
the transmission alone poppycock.

As I said read the threads. You will find there is no
consistent evidence to support your argument one way
or the another. But be my guess. Have at it.

Regards

Okay, I get your point. However, let's take a clear, fair look at the criteria for a formal complaint in this case: ONE person has to have experienced a transmission failure they feel is connected to BMW's alleged negligence in calling the fluid in their transmissions "lifetime fluids," and be willing to write it down, sign it, and send it to BMW NA. Of course, there in fact is not only one, but seemingly hundreds if not thousands of people who would fit this criteria ... the amount and "consistency of evidence" are to be collected outside of just this website, and proved or disproved in a courtroom (or in mediation), not in the analysis of threads on one discussion board.

While my transmission has not failed, I am interested to hear what my first cousin (who works as a corporate attorney who often represents Toyota - imagine that?!) says about this issue. My .02: criteria for a formal complaint have been met, and a complaint should be filed if for no other reason than to "encourage" BMW (ie. rattle their cage a bit) to be more accountable for giving bad rec's regarding their substandard products sold at a HUGE mark-up, but not supported based on shoddy (pathetic) customer support for a part(s) that better last longer than 150k miles if they are going to be so definite about it not needing proper servicing because it is a "lifetime" part.

[kally]

Just picked up my x5 from the tranny rebuild today - i cant believe it failed after only 150k klm.

My wife uses as daily driver 4.4 2001 black with cream leather trim - beautifull car, ive put 20inch 4.6 is rims on it looks great

the misses went to get some groceries and the car was on a slight incline wouldnt engage in reverse towed it back drove to mechanics and short story is torque converter failed so basically had the whole trans rebuilt no gears but all new clutches new torquey and seals etc - fortunatley the internal gears were in good nick otherwise would have required a full rebuild would hve been another $3k !

My trans specialist said hes done about 6 of them in these things now i dont know but this 150 k and rebuild the trans is kinda bad i love the car but when you are buying a quality european car you should not have these issues and if you do the company should definatley offer some sort of compensation.

Unfortunatley doesnt reflect well on company really.

aside from this I love the car.

[X5Sport]

Had my E53 back for about three weeks now following a transmission rebuild. It's fitted with the same 6spd auto that the V8 4.8 has. The failure occurred at 41,890 miles and was nothing to do with the fluid - changing it would have made no difference.

The failure was within the torque converter and not the actual transmission but the broken plastic (yes plastic!) parts from the TC were ingested by the tranny oil pump destroying both it and the downstream clutches when the pressure failed. There were no warnings at all. There is no doubt that this was a premature failure and just 'one of those things' that can happen. Not that BMW GB showed any inclination to 'goodwill' the repair though!

However, this failure is not unusual and occurs on other vehicles that use the same box (Jaguar & Range Rover I'm told), though it is rare at low mileage like mine. Auto transmissions generally have a higher failure rate because they are by their nature a more complex beast. They are also much more expensive to fix - albeit with a rebuild costing approx 1/3 of a remfctrd and BMW fitted unit. Whether the transmissions fitted to the X5 are any better or worse than those used by other manufacturers depends upon the actual number of failures, and failure modes. Percentage wise it's probably around average. Perhaps an FOI request to BMW NA may reveal the true nature of the number of failures - but that might only identify those BMW know about. It won't pick up those fixed by other specialists - as mine was.

Given the option again, I would have had the 6spd manual but they are very difficult to sell on (and go for a lower price) as no one wants a vehicle like an X5 with a manual gearbox.

[HPIA4v2]

Originally Posted by X5Sport

Had my E53 back for about three weeks now following a transmission rebuild. It's fitted with the same 6spd auto that the V8 4.8 has. The failure occurred at 41,890 miles and was nothing to do with the fluid - changing it would have made no difference.

The failure was within the torque converter and not the actual transmission but the broken plastic (yes plastic!) parts from the TC were ingested by the tranny oil pump destroying both it and the downstream clutches when the pressure failed. There were no warnings at all. There is no doubt that this was a premature failure and just 'one of those things' that can happen. Not that BMW GB showed any inclination to 'goodwill' the repair though!

However, this failure is not unusual and occurs on other vehicles that use the same box (Jaguar & Range Rover I'm told), though it is rare at low mileage like mine. Auto transmissions generally have a higher failure rate because they are by their nature a more complex beast. They are also much more expensive to fix - albeit with a rebuild costing approx 1/3 of a remfctrd and BMW fitted unit. Whether the transmissions fitted to the X5 are any better or worse than those used by other manufacturers depends upon the actual number of failures, and failure modes. Percentage wise it's probably around average. Perhaps an FOI request to BMW NA may reveal the true nature of the number of failures - but that might only identify those BMW know about. It won't pick up those fixed by other specialists - as mine was.

Given the option again, I would have had the 6spd manual but they are very difficult to sell on (and go for a lower price) as no one wants a vehicle like an X5 with a manual gearbox.

Wonder if diesel with high torque cause the trans failure on yours. But again we've heard so many trans failure on petrol engine as well.

"lifetime" is made up word by lawyer since it's vague in terms of quantitative (no mileage can be put on it) and different people have different expectation in longevity. The old timer of Benz owner will balk for anything to fail under 200K miles, but new owner of benz lease theirs for 3 years.

[prwdmd]

Originally Posted by Supernatural

I disagree with your assumption. While the 3.0 is not the biggest powerhouse in the Bmw fray, it is no stone. Whoopie a 4.4 auto won by a car length. Furthermore I would like to see a run with a chipped 3.0 or a SC'd one.

YouTube - BMW X5 4.4 (automatic transmission) vs BMW X5 3.0 (manual transmission)

To me it seems like the 4.4 won by about 8-10 car lengths. The 3.0 got smoked.

[m5james]

8-10 might be a stretch, but I definately don't see how Supernatural only came up w/ 1 car length. Is this a 3.0 jealousy thing


FYI - Willgabriel and Quicksilver...you don't need to quote each other when your reply is directly after one another, we already know since your answers are back to back. Quote is for when you're replying to the guy like 5 posts up, on another page, the OP, etc...you're killing me on my phone trying to read this stuff