Transmission Reliability

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by faz

This is where I think a lot of people are confused. I have not seen anywhere, in BMW's own marketing or advertisements even, that 'reliability' has been mentioned.

Performance, luxury, driving dynamics, ... but never reliability. (sad for us, really, but true.)

So, does this mean you would be okay with the corollary of your inference? By not explicitly saying the major components are reliable, BMW is saying they are to be considered unreliable or poorly-made? You see, you can't really have an ultimate driving machine that PERFORMS if its major components are unreliable or poorly made ... IMO, it is poor logic to suggest BMW is not making any reliability claims regarding major components simply because they do not explicitly state it in their ads. It is, in fact, implied due to the connection those major components have with the other parts and claims being made - without reliable major components, those other claims aren't true or reliable either.

[kally]

I am finding it it difficult to understand what some are saying here.

I have had a number of cars and wouldnt excpect a car of this quality to have reliability issues - all cars may have some issues - minor at worst - but to do trannies or torque converters at such low km I beleive is simply not acceptible.

i was told by people in the trade that these cars have a 500k klm service life, they have been designed to operate for 500k klm before being scrapped i suppose.

I always looked at buying quality as paying for something upfront that would outlast something cheaper without the headaches.

obviously you need to perform routine maintenance and my cars get that done every 10k not 20k as suggested by manufacturer - all things being equall they should last.

fortunatley i could afford to fix my car but like anything, no one likes to through money away.

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by kally

I am finding it it difficult to understand what some are saying here.

I have had a number of cars and wouldnt excpect a car of this quality to have reliability issues - all cars may have some issues - minor at worst - but to do trannies or torque converters at such low km I beleive is simply not acceptible.

i was told by people in the trade that these cars have a 500k klm service life, they have been designed to operate for 500k klm before being scrapped i suppose.

I always looked at buying quality as paying for something upfront that would outlast something cheaper without the headaches.

obviously you need to perform routine maintenance and my cars get that done every 10k not 20k as suggested by manufacturer - all things being equall they should last.

fortunatley i could afford to fix my car but like anything, no one likes to through money away.

Exactly right. I think some are so blinded by what they like about their Bimmer's, and maybe so badly want to justify the ridiculous amounts of money people have to spend to fix what should not break so soon, that they willfully turn away from using common sense, and in so doing don't hold BMW accountable for crappy components, and inexcusably pathetic customer care especially when it comes to the transmissions on X5's.

[Quicksilver]

Some of you guys are funny.
If you're that unhappy, sell
your BMW and buy a Hyundai.......

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

Some of you guys are funny.
If you're that unhappy, sell
your BMW and buy a Hyundai.......

I think that is missing the merit of a valid concern regarding holding something we do enjoy and like to a higher standard (I also think you know that; if you don't, come back to the light of truth, brother). As my friend who is a Master BMW Mechanic even says, BMW has become a bit too cheap in how they make certain components especially when it comes to all of the plastic they use in the engine bay.

[Quicksilver]

And your friend the "Master BMW Mechanics" word is law?
How are you or anyone else round these parts going
to hold BMWNA to a higher standard? Whatever truth
there is to be told will only fall on deaf ears spoken here.

As I said if the product as described by your Master BMW Mechanics
doesn't live up to your expectations why not move on and get
something that fits you expectations regarding reliability.
That's what I would do........

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

And your friend the "Master BMW Mechanics" word is law?
How are you or anyone else round these parts going
to hold BMWNA to a higher standard? Whatever truth
there is to be told will only fall on deaf ears spoken here.

As I said if the product as described by your Master BMW Mechanics
doesn't live up to your expectations why not move on and get
something that fits you expectations regarding reliability.
That's what I would do........

Is your word law?

Using your rationale, we'd turn the other cheek, and just be happy to hand over our money while being taken advantage of in every case where something or someone is performing at "less than adequate" levels while not being accountable enough to provide a fair remedy. A person can BOTH want to keep a product, and demand that the maker of that product do a better job in the manufacture and support of the product while also being a loyal, good customer. In fact, I'd say such customers are often the best ones to have as they provide honest feedback which helps to drive good companies to be better companies, and lagging companies who just want profits at any cost out of business.

Look, if you are happy with your experience with BMW X5's, that is fine. But the thread title is about "Transmission Reliability." It is a right, and good thing for people to post their concerns here while also contemplating what BMW should do (and may very well do with enough pressure) to help correct obvious flaws in one of their components and in their methods for maintaining/addressing said component.

[JCL]

My thoughts on transmission failures have been included in (many) previous threads, some of which Quick has linked in this thread.

A couple of thoughts:

Why does everyone seem to think that changing the transmission fluid will extend the life of the automatic transmission? Documented failures here haven't been due to burnt (overheated) fluid, but rather due to torque converters, electronic sensors, reverse clutches, software, etc. None of those would be improved by changing the fluid, and if changing the fluid dislodges any sediment then in fact changing it would hasten those failures.

If anyone is buying an X5 planning on 500 k km service life, they are dreaming IMO. The engines will probably be fine. The software and electronics, however, will sideline the vehicle long before the engines wear out.

BMW have never promised that the transmissions will last your lifetime, or that they will last the vehicle's lifetime. They have said that the fluid will last the transmission's lifetime. So far, that has been pretty accurate, given the lack of failures attributable to fluid breakdown.

I am with Wagner. I have purchased five BMWs in recent years, and didn't keep any of them more than 80,000 km (50,000 miles). Personally, I sell them after a few years so that kids and others can buy them used, and then spend their money on nuisance repairs. I buy BMWs new because they aren't expensive for what I get. If BMW spent more money making the transmission good enough to last 500,000 miles, I wouldn't buy the cars in the first place because they would be too expensive. They have an appropriate level of durability for the price point.

We are picking on BMW a fair bit in this thread, but they aren't even BMW transmissions. They are built by ZF and GM, two companies that makes some of the best automatic transmissions in the world. Sure, BMWs will be obsolete in a few years, same as most other brands. That is the price we pay for the constant consumer demands for more power, lower emissions, more electronic options, more technology, and so on. Does anyone else remember driving vehicles that didn't have reverse cameras, PDC, DSC, 8 speed automatics with lock up torque converters and adaptive shift algorithms? It wasn't that many years ago, yet people are still expecting the same reliability they got from cars that did not have those features.

[Quicksilver]

willgabriel

First off I'm not a BMW Master Mechanic (But I will be seeing
mine In the morning) So I'll ask him for his educated opinion.

If what you say is correct there is no way I would continue to buy a product
if I felt as you do. The best remedy to improve products is for people
to stop buying defective products and buy something else.
If enough people do that then perhaps the MFG will get the message.

I agree that "customers are often the best ones to have as they provide
honest feedback which helps to drive good companies to be better companies"
But that only works if the MFG is listening which
is why I suggested in another post that if this issue is a serious as
you believe it is then set up a website (only takes and hour) and enlist
all those who share your concerns. That may get BMW"s attention.
Especially if there are as many people with the same issue everyone
claims there is.

Go ahead and post here all you want (all the good it will do).
I'm just suggesting that I don't see what good it will do within
the confines of this forum especially if theres a possibility that
the problem isn't as big as you claim it is.

Better yet set up a BMW complaint twitter account. If you get
enough followers you'll get some attention for sure.

I also agree "It is a right, and good thing for people to post their concerns
here while also contemplating what BMW should do regarding obvious
flaws in one of their components and in their methods for maintaining/addressing said component.

But I disagree that it may very well do with enough pressure to help correct
transmission problems. I've been around these parts for a while and
BMW has said and continues to say that transmission problems are addressed within the
warranty period and in some cases out to 100,000 miles.

That being the case I seriously doubt that any discussion we have about
transmission problems is going cause BMW to perk up to an issue
they are already aware of and all of a sudden change their ways.

You want to push their button? Gather your forces, get your legal
team together and go for it. I'm sure all those who are having tranny
problems will be rooting for your success, as will I

[faz]

Listen guys, there is no BMW owner who doesn't wish for their car to have the same reliability level as Toyota or Honda or Nissan. And there isn't one car owner who likes to have their car break down and have to pay for the repairs.

With that being said, customers talk with their pockets. If you like a brand, you buy it and the brand stays alive and does business as it always has. If you don't pay for that brand, the brand will die or change its ways to become something that you will pay for.

Really, even if we all agree in this thread or forum that yes, BMW has the crappiest parts built into these cars, nothing will come out of it unless people stop buying BMW and moving on to other brands.


If you don't like the brand for whatever reason, move on. It is seriously as simple as that.