Transmission Reliability

[Quicksilver]

Call it like you see it but IMO I'm not stress about my so called naivety/willful ignorance as you describe it. I believe in reality and reality says that you have no substitive evidence regarding your claims.

What you continue to promote is wrong and your naivety/willful ignorance
regarding reality is preventing you from realizing facts you have already been given regarding the matter. You continue to repeat the same refrain after being given expert information regarding your position go back and review JCL's threads. He's right on point.

As I said I agree with your concerns now go and sue somebody.

Originally Posted by willgabriel

I am openly laughing at the naivety/willful ignorance that has you believing a "performance" SAV can't have a transmission that SHOULD last at least 150k miles, AND that BMW didn't expect their transmission to last that long from the beginning at the $60k+ price point. BMW transmission are not put under that much stress when compared to other similarly-priced SUV/SAV's that they need to be built more cheaply or lighter to preserve price and/or performance. You go on drinking that Kool-aide if it makes you feel better though ... you and Quicksilver can share a gallon of it as you both have been duped.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by willgabriel

I am openly laughing at the naivety/willful ignorance that has you believing a "performance" SAV can't have a transmission that SHOULD last at least 150k miles, AND that BMW didn't expect their transmission to last that long from the beginning at the $60k+ price point. BMW transmission are not put under that much stress when compared to other similarly-priced SUV/SAV's that they need to be built more cheaply or lighter to preserve price and/or performance. You go on drinking that Kool-aide if it makes you feel better though ... you and Quicksilver can share a gallon of it as you both have been duped.

I am very glad you are laughing, because I am rolling on the floor. It is very entertaining here.

I never said that a performance SUV can't have a transmission that WILL last at least 150,000 miles. I said that you didn't buy one that was guaranteed to that point, so I don't want to pay for your error.

My current performance SUV has a transmission that will last 500,000 km without trouble. I won't keep it that long, but that is besides the point.

I noted in a post above (purely opinion) that the transmission probably will last 150,000 miles, or more, on average. They won't all last that long due to the nature of the failure. It won't be worn out when it fails, it will have a random failure involving consequential damage from a minor subcomponent, IMO. I knew that going in though, so I won't be joining any class action suits to make BMW pay for my naivete.

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

Call it like you see it but IMO I'm not stress about my so called naivety/willful ignorance as you describe it. I believe in reality and reality says that you have no substitive evidence regarding your claims.

What you continue to promote is wrong and your naivety/willful ignorance
regarding reality is preventing you from realizing facts you have already been given regarding the matter. You continue to repeat the same refrain after being given expert information regarding your position go back and review JCL's threads. He's right on point.

As I said I agree with your concerns now go and sue somebody.

Simply put: Just because we can offer logical explanations for the failures / build quality, etc after the fact (my Master BMW Mechanic has offered the same reasons), in no way excuses BMW for their choices in handling the failures in the way they have ... so, "willful ignorance" in this case is not refusing to understand good explanations as to "why" there are problems (I agree with both of you there), but in washing one's hands of any concern for the fact that BMW as a company is failing its costumers in the way they are handling the problems to the point that they seem to be in a disturbingly arrogant denial mode.

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by JCL

I am very glad you are laughing, because I am rolling on the floor. It is very entertaining here.

I never said that a performance SUV can't have a transmission that WILL last at least 150,000 miles. I said that you didn't buy one that was guaranteed to that point, so I don't want to pay for your error.

My current performance SUV has a transmission that will last 500,000 km without trouble. I won't keep it that long, but that is besides the point.

I noted in a post above (purely opinion) that the transmission probably will last 150,000 miles, or more, on average. They won't all last that long due to the nature of the failure. It won't be worn out when it fails, it will have a random failure involving consequential damage from a minor subcomponent, IMO. I knew that going in though, so I won't be joining any class action suits to make BMW pay for my naivete.

Well, that's your choice. So, fine. As already stated, the main issue isn't NECESSARILY that the transmissions seem to fail too soon, but that BMW is not backing their product that even you admit should be able to go at least 150k miles without failing. NO "reasonable consumer" would expect a BMW transmission to need replacing (at a $7k clip) before 150k miles based on the quality they seem to represent and the price of the vehicles (and that's the standard here - not what you would do with your more advanced knowledge of BMW's weaknesses that undermine what BMW claims by explicit and implicit representations). Again, if they do fail, that's a problem, but the fact BMW has all but denied any responsibility for any issues with the transmission thus leaving many consumers hanging out to dry or at least wrestling with BMW over fixing what is under warranty - THAT is the MAIN issue that must be addressed.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by willgabriel

A day of reckoning is coming though ...

Originally Posted by willgabriel

I look forward to hearing/reading what BMW says when they are asked the same question under examination .

So, are you the one suing them?

That would fit right in with your ongoing search for grounds.

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by JCL

So, are you the one suing them?

That would fit right in with your ongoing search for grounds.

No, I am investigating though. I'll keep you apprised of the situation. I really enjoy BMW's, but I am (obviously) disturbed by some of the "trends" I am seeing in their quality and customer care dept's ...

[JCL]

Originally Posted by willgabriel

Fair enough, and I understand and believe in personal responsibility. Yet, as this 2007 Consumer Affairs blurb shows, BMW's response to the transmission issues leaves much to be desired...

Transmission Failures Plague BMW Owners

A 2007 article by a consumer web site is admissable? Especially when all the examples quoted are 2000 and 2001 vehicles, and thus well out of warranty?

And you 'understand and believe in personal responsibliity?' Really?

[JCL]

Originally Posted by willgabriel

No, I am investigating though. I'll keep you apprised of the situation. I really enjoy BMW's, but I am (obviously) disturbed by some of the "trends" I am seeing in their quality and customer care dept's ...

BMW is not the problem. What you should do is figure out how to improve the BMW dealer network, as the dealers are the customer interface. The real problem IMO is that US purchasers focus so much on the lowest purchase cost for a vehicle that the dealer community often isn't making a living selling cars. It is a vicious cycle.

If you want to go after BMW, you will need to figure out how to isolate a problem that BMW willfully suppressed. It would also help if you could get the US government safety stooges to have an opinion. Look at your transmission example, you are mixing up various models with different transmission models from different suppliers. You lumped reverse gear failures together with shifting issues. Time to hire some expert witnesses.

[Quicksilver]

Exactly;

Before taking on those crooks in court might be a good idea
to find out which transmission are you talking about,
what failure do you mean? Is it the floor mat, or the
electronics. Is it consumer error (off roading peeling rubber?)
or is there some other issue like changing the fluid....

Sorry I couldn't resist. I did ask my "master mechanic"
about this issue and he said that it depends on which
transmission your talking about. What year X5? What model?
He explained that the failure rate isn't any worse than it
has been in the past and he has seen few transmissions
that needed to be replaced.........

[m5james]

Originally Posted by willgabriel

Fair enough, and I understand and believe in personal responsibility. Yet, as this 2007 Consumer Affairs blurb shows, BMW's response to the transmission issues leaves much to be desired, and in fact, sounds too much like Ford when it came to the Pinto and Toyota about two years ago when they thought they could "get by" with distract and denial tactics. A day of reckoning is coming though ...

Transmission Failures Plague BMW Owners

That article sounds like an abridged version of www.noreverse.org and the same stories I've been reading about in the forums for years. Ironically, even reported at the end of the article, that BMW's sales continue to rise. Thank god for Car & Driver keeping the 3 series in the "10 Best Cars" category for as long as the magazine has been around...too bad most people don't do their homework until after they have a failure, then they see how widespread this issue is.