Trans repairs vs trans service

[flatlander]

Originally Posted by amacman

too many people here got their head up their own ass , that is why they would argue so much .
anyhoo , sense has prevailed and now it is recommended to do a proper service , same as you would on any auto transmission .

The valve body is what really needs to be cleaned during the service. My guess is that those people who've had trouble after a transmission service did not have the valve body serviced. Just merely draining, flushing, and filling the trans fluid won't clean out all those tiny passages in the valve body.
And there's little springs and check valves in there that wear out too. So a valve body service or replacement is essential. Otherwise, the trans behavior could get even worse.

Also, for those with the rear-end bang: check your MAF. If the MAF is not working properly, or there is an intake leak somewhere, you can get the same symptoms.

[amacman]

Central Valve Bodies - Remanufactured Valve Bodies
see this
and this http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...-assembly.html

and this
My visit at ZF Dortmund for Gearbox maintenance.(very, very long!) HUGH RESULT!!

keep you amused for a while

sometimes the internal wiring can be the problem or a shift solenoid .

[CharlieHustleX5]

Originally Posted by flatlander

The valve body is what really needs to be cleaned during the service. My guess is that those people who've had trouble after a transmission service did not have the valve body serviced. Just merely draining, flushing, and filling the trans fluid won't clean out all those tiny passages in the valve body.
And there's little springs and check valves in there that wear out too. So a valve body service or replacement is essential. Otherwise, the trans behavior could get even worse.

Also, for those with the rear-end bang: check your MAF. If the MAF is not working properly, or there is an intake leak somewhere, you can get the same symptoms.

flatlander and amacman are correct.

Here's my opinion on what to do in the event that your X5 begins to suffer from symptoms leading to transmission failure. You can take it to the dealer for diagnosis since they can dig through the faults saved in the TCU to pinpoint the possible issue. If they conclude that the repair is to replace the transmission, try to get a good explanation as to what the exact issue is. If they're not exactly sure, pay for the diagnosis and bring your X to a reputable transmission shop for a second opinion.

Most problems encountered with BMW transmissions are the result of old fluid and overheating within the transmission. So a transmission replacement or complete rebuild is not always necessary and is a waste of money if misdiagnosed. Its common to hear that BMW owners have their trannys replaced at the dealer because their SA had said it needed to be changed per the diagnosis. The reason is BMW only allows technicians to service the transmission no further than a Level 1 clearance. Thats basically removal/installation of transmission assembly and torque converter. I'm not making this up either, as I am currently in the BMW STEP program receiving factory training.

The transmissions found in our cars are manufactured by GM or ZF. A good Transmission shop will be familiar with both names and have repaired or rebuilt enough to determine the possible area of failure. In some cases, it could be the difference between spending 3k+ to replace the unit or a few hundred bucks to service the valve body, replace solenoids, and replace the filter.

[TowX]

Well, in my case the diagnosis is a bad trans. Dealer pulled codes from the TCU and transmitted them to BMW tech support. Tried a few more tests with and without the TCU hooked up from what I understand and the tech was able to get it to bang again. Transmitted that data to tech support and the decision was to replace the trans. Apparently between the 3-4 upshift hoot and the almost daily slow speed bang now means the trans has to be replaced.

I still don't know the data or codes that meant the trans was bad, and won't until probably next week when I get the X5 back. But the fact that the tech was able to reproduce the bang combined with the codes he pulled while driving were enough to make the diagnosis.

I'm glad I've got a CPO car and the trans is under warranty. If I'd bought this X5 new then the trans repair would be on my nickel (or Visa), but being a CPO car has it's benefits.

[CharlieHustleX5]

Originally Posted by TowX

Well, in my case the diagnosis is a bad trans. Dealer pulled codes from the TCU and transmitted them to BMW tech support. Tried a few more tests with and without the TCU hooked up from what I understand and the tech was able to get it to bang again. Transmitted that data to tech support and the decision was to replace the trans. Apparently between the 3-4 upshift hoot and the almost daily slow speed bang now means the trans has to be replaced.

I still don't know the data or codes that meant the trans was bad, and won't until probably next week when I get the X5 back. But the fact that the tech was able to reproduce the bang combined with the codes he pulled while driving were enough to make the diagnosis.

I'm glad I've got a CPO car and the trans is under warranty. If I'd bought this X5 new then the trans repair would be on my nickel (or Visa), but being a CPO car has it's benefits.

You personally have not been in the car and witnessed the vehicle's reaction to driving with the TCU connected and disconnected right? Have they cleared all adaptations on the TCU and tried to see what the result was? What codes did they transmit back and forth? Would they even tell you?

I'm not saying your tech has done a bad job or undermining his abilities. I'm curious to know of the answers. Like I said, most of the time thats what they're prompted to do to save time on diagnosis and to get the car back into your hands faster. Having a CPO vehicle is definitely great and the dealer is taking care of the issue.

[Weasel]

I'm still wanting to know which control module they pulled codes from and unplugged.... the TCU is the phone module, the EGS is the transmission control, the VTG is the transfer case control (on o4 and up) etc. What was the technicians story on the repair order?

[killcrap]

Originally Posted by CharlieHustleX5

You personally have not been in the car and witnessed the vehicle's reaction to driving with the TCU connected and disconnected right? Have they cleared all adaptations on the TCU and tried to see what the result was? What codes did they transmit back and forth? Would they even tell you?

I'm not saying your tech has done a bad job or undermining his abilities. I'm curious to know of the answers. Like I said, most of the time thats what they're prompted to do to save time on diagnosis and to get the car back into your hands faster. Having a CPO vehicle is definitely great and the dealer is taking care of the issue.

The EGS is the Transmission Control Unit, and BMW no longer has them in the sense of external control unit on new Series vehicles SOP beginning 2002 excluding Z4/X3 Its now the mechatronik Concept. Where the valvebody and control unit is together.

Nobody at BMW be it Klaus or Carl Barbara(i wouldnt expect you to know who they are yet) will EVER tell you ever to drive the car with the mechatronik disconnected. They would however tell you to disconect the VTG motor to stop the actuator from applying the clutch. So that is probably what they are talking about.

Neither will tell you to clear the adaptations to see what it does. The only time you should clear adaptations/reset learning functions is after programming the EGS, or after clearing the DME/DDE adaptations. Reset mechatronik is only for replacing it.


Speaking from experience, and not Step BMW Factory Training(haha), If the valvebody were bad(seals, checkballs, solenoids, etc) the entire mechatronik would be replaced. And i have never had a fault code stored for any transmission complaint in which the fix was to replace the Transmission.

Here are the only type of complaints ive come across relating to the transmission on X5 Facelift V8 when being repaired by BMW underwarranty

Transmission Fluid Leak - Mechatroniks Sealing Sleeve Leaking

Vehicle feels like being rear ended when coming to a stop. - Transmission Replacement/Transfercase Failure

Transmission has a harsh 2-1 downshift at times - Software error in EGS/Transfercase failure

Transmission is shifting back and forth at 35-40mph. Pendulum shifting due to faulty Mechatroniks.

Trans Fail Safe Warning is on - Ignition Switch or Alternator

4x4 Lamp Was Illuminated - Sluggush VTG motor operation(ambient temperature freezing conditions)

Transmission upshifts and downshifts harshly - Fluid Leak, FC4F5/4F81/Transmission Replacement/ Transfercase failure

Transmission makes wooping noises at idle - Perform Double Flush Procedure.

[wullaby]

Originally Posted by killcrap

Transmission makes wooping noises at idle - Perform Double Flush Procedure.

Killcrap what is wooping noise at idel? my 03 4.4i makes a noise just under the trans oil pan, this noise, is a slight hissing, gurgly, bubbling steam release type noise. Is Wooping kinda like some of these noises or not really? I am curious if I need to take it in for some flush and flush,,,i have 80,000miles on it. It doesn't really shift or drive abnormally.

[TowX]

I don't know all the details in my particular case yet. I just know that what started out as an inspection of the fairly common slow speed throttle take-up bank has turned into a trans replacement. My case may be somewhat unique in that I use my X to tow my 911 race car so on occasion I'll get the bang while pulling 4500 lbs behind me. There have been a couple of towing cases where the bank has been pretty violent because of the extra weight behind me.

What "codes" did they pull? I have no idea and didn't want to push the issue over the phone on a Friday afternoon before a holiday weekend because I knew the shop and the service manager had to be very busy. And I'll find out what "data" was transmitted to BMW tech support for them to reach the conclusion they did. But regardless of how they made the diagnosis, I'm getting a fresh trans. And it will get an annual dose of fresh fluid and filter body, just like I've always done with my previous GM tow vehicles. This "lifetime" fluid idea is just lame. There's no such thing.

FWIW- I used to be a BMW tech back in the 70's, that's how I earned my college tuition $$. Then I spent time as a BMW dealer parts and service mgr in the early 80's while racing a 2002 I built myself. These days, while no longer doing anything related to the car business (though I did consult to Harley) I spend my free time wrenching on the 911 race car, build my own engines and trans for it, and do all the work on my 528. But when it comes to these new auto transmissions, I will plead ignorance and let others do the work, especially under warranty. So if I use incorrect terms for procedures or tests, so be it.