p0011, noise, engine falling apart?

[fmugur]

This is how I 'fixed' my X last week. I got the car towed to a shop (BMW mechanic I do not trust but I ran out of options) which suggested that I should replace the engine because it's cheaper. Really? What the heck! My engine just died all of a sudden? I did took care of this car and I cannot believe the only option is to replace the engine. The guy didn't even consider to retime the chain. He said that I need to replace the chain and that's a 26 hours job + material which will bring the cost up to 4-5k. I mentioned that the DIY I found on the web does not require to remove the upper oil pan and he said that's not an option because it will leak guarantee if I do it that way.
I towed it to another mechanic but he doesn't have time until next week.
Come on guys. Brainstorming helps. Please through some more ideas on how to pin point to the defective part.
So,
1. the chain tensioner spring was broken but the tensioner wasn't. Would that give enough room for the chain to jump a tooth or would that be the perfect setup for the chain to stretch?
2. I tried to understand the vanos functionality. if the chain didn't jump a tooth could it be the solenoid or the vanos to mess up the timing to generate that noise? Note: the noise seem to be a timing noise and not a vanos rattle noise.
It looks like the vanos could adjust up to 20 degrees. Am I misunderstanding it?

http://www.e38.org/m62tu.pdf

[Weasel]

You could always pull the valvecovers off, pin the crank at top dead center and check the cam timing visually, if the chain is a tooth off you should be able to see it by looking at the square parts the cam holding blocks go on... and I'm sure you can find the info needed on checking timing on E38.org

[Nik]

adjusting a chain tooth takes 1 hour. plus taking valve covers off and replacing the gaskets take 2-3 hours max. I watched it being done on another X the other day. My mechanic for example took my entire engine out, replaced all the gaskets and put it back in a day.

BTW. Is that a Tan X5? It looks amazing with IS package.

[imola38]

Judging by the noise in the video I would say that your plastic chain guides have come apart. I've seen a few of these on higher mileage M62's as of late. These were on fairly poorly "dealer maintaned" 150k plus engines.

Basically what happens is the plastic that covers the guide rails for the timing chain to ride on gets hard and brittle and just breaks apart, essentially disentegrating into the oil pan. I've seen 4 total in the past 6 months. Two of them were salvageable. Two of them had bent valves due to the cams jumping teeth.

It is a huge job to replace the chain sliders. The entire front half of the engine has to be dissasembled. The 20 something hours for chain replacement is relatively accurate. It's hard to give exact labor times on a job of that size.

Get the engine properly diagnosed and find out EXACTLY what is wrong. Have a compression test performed to check for engine damage. There is no need to replace chain guides on a lunched engine. Let us know what happens. Good Luck!

-Ben

[fmugur]

Originally Posted by imola38

Judging by the noise in the video I would say that your plastic chain guides have come apart. I've seen a few of these on higher mileage M62's as of late. These were on fairly poorly "dealer maintaned" 150k plus engines.

Basically what happens is the plastic that covers the guide rails for the timing chain to ride on gets hard and brittle and just breaks apart, essentially disentegrating into the oil pan. I've seen 4 total in the past 6 months. Two of them were salvageable. Two of them had bent valves due to the cams jumping teeth.

It is a huge job to replace the chain sliders. The entire front half of the engine has to be dissasembled. The 20 something hours for chain replacement is relatively accurate. It's hard to give exact labor times on a job of that size.

Get the engine properly diagnosed and find out EXACTLY what is wrong. Have a compression test performed to check for engine damage. There is no need to replace chain guides on a lunched engine. Let us know what happens. Good Luck!

-Ben

Thanks guys. You were right on. Is the compression test suitable in this conditions when there are plastic pieces allover? What should I do next. I want to tow the car back home from the mechanic but is there something else I need to ask him to do before I take home? Did the plastic pieces do more damage in there? Is it possible to clean all the plastic from the engine?
I wonder what are my options at this point.

[imola38]

Glad you at least have it figured out. Sucks about the chains though..

I would do a compression test just to see where you are. I think it's fie to just spin the engine over without running it to do the test. You do want to get as much of that plastic out as possible before running it anymore though. If you remove the lower oil pan and oil filter you'll likely find a good bit of it.

You shouldn't have to remove the lower oil pan. It is recommended but it can be done without. Just be very careful when sliding the lower cover back on and use a god quality sealant.

I have to commend you on taking on such a big job at home. I will add that it's even worse on an X due to the engine sitting so low in the car.

Let us know what happens!

-Ben

[fmugur]

Originally Posted by Nik

adjusting a chain tooth takes 1 hour. plus taking valve covers off and replacing the gaskets take 2-3 hours max. I watched it being done on another X the other day. My mechanic for example took my entire engine out, replaced all the gaskets and put it back in a day.

How much did he charge for talking the engine off? Mine said that's a 30 hours job.

Originally Posted by Nik

BTW. Is that a Tan X5? It looks amazing with IS package.

Yes, it is. Thanks. I like it too

[Nik]

Yes does sound like those plastic things being broken.

[fmugur]

OK, here is the update. The second mechanic seems very knowledgeable and transparent.
He ran a few tests including a vanos test. He said the test couldn't complete on bank 1, just stopped. So the 20% cam adjustment couldn't be completed. He suspects that the vanos on bank 1 is defective. He will charge me 10 hours (100/h) to replace both vanos. I have the option to buy the tools and attempt to do it myself but the timing seems tricky and I am not sure I can do a good job. The vanos tool kit is about $400 shipped. So I would save $600 or more is I resell the tools.
If he takes the valve cover and the upper front covers off and sees that the chain guides are damaged then the cost is 20 hours or so for the whole job. If that's the case he will charge me only for the disassembly portion and I will tow it home and I will change the guides myself. He was very confident that the problem is the vanos and the chain guides are ok but... we will see. Thanks for all the tips. I will update when he takes it apart.

[Nik]

hope to make mine that way one day also.
I am in Republic of Georgia, so labor prices are very cheap here. I payed 400$ for taking engine out, replacing Exhaust gaskets, fixing timings and replacing valve cover gaskets. But I also was charged 500$ for tranny repair... big differance.