Last ditch effort to eliminate dreaded brake 'chudder"

[TurnAround]

Originally Posted by gerry_miranda

I used to have an issue with my M3 and X5. After some research it seems that BMW had these issues a LONG time ago and after much research on their part, figured out the proper combination brake pad compound and rotor alloy to avoid it. After trying many many diff combination...I went stock rotors and pads from the BMW dealer....no more issues on either cars.

I've given some thought about the OEM recommended rotor brand thing.
On the pads... the OEM recommend Pagid or Jurid pads leave too much dust. THey turn the wheels dark after only a few days I'm afraid.
But I appreciate the input.. because I was wondering if this situation is exactly what you're saying.. BMW knows about it and has painted themselves into a corner where only one kind of rotor and pad combo gets around the engineering problem.

[recklessspyder]

I certainly agree with JCL to have someone look at your suspension...many places will do it for free.

I know you said you did some replacement....but I would still have it checked. Weasel always stresses to make sure load is on the car with suspension replacement and others have induced early wear by not following his advice. Not sure who did yours....

[TurnAround]

Originally Posted by recklessspyder

I certainly agree with JCL to have someone look at your suspension...many places will do it for free.

I know you said you did some replacement....but I would still have it checked. Weasel always stresses to make sure load is on the car with suspension replacement and others have induced early wear by not following his advice. Not sure who did yours....

Because of the board's cautions on this, I asked my mechanic to make sure he lowered / loaded the car before tightening the new bushing bolts. He confirmed that he did.

[Jordo]

Any chance that something is worn out in the power steering box? Any one go down that road?

[E55AMG2]

HD and OE are the same, more solid bushing IIRC. The HD is in reference to the 5/7 series bushing which are primarily liquid filled.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by E55AMG2

HD and OE are the same, more solid bushing IIRC. The HD is in reference to the 5/7 series bushing which are primarily liquid filled.

I understood that the HD were solid, and made by Meyle, as compared to the OE E53 liquid-filled bushing.

[E55AMG2]

I thought the OEs are also solid and that only the 540/M5/E38 bushings are liquid filled. If you cross reference the p/n's, the X5s are unique to the X5 and the others are shared across the E38/9 platform. Meyle is the OE IIRC (kinda like Lemforder for the control arms and MANN for the Oil Filters) of all of these bushings.

[JCL]

I'll go with Weasel (from the link I included in post#2):

Originally Posted by Weasel

So about a week or so ago the drivers side thrust arm bushing on my X5 blew out its fluid, thus causing the shake when braking etc. we all know about with the thrust arm bushings. Seeing everyone who went with polyurethane bushings almost immediately post a thread trying to isolate the new shimmy they have and say it feels kinda rough over bumps now comparatively, I decided to go with the Meyle heavy duty bushings which are the same design as OEM, but solid rubber vs the fluid filled. I can say these are stiffer and more sporty feeling than the OEM design, feel more connection to the road... but without the overly harsh feel of the solid polyurethane bushings.

[imola38]

Originally Posted by TurnAround

I've been living the nightmare of the dreaded X5 brake 'chudder' steering wheel shakes for about 4 or 5 years now. I feel like I've tried everything.

Its caused by uneven brake deposits on the rotors and the pads. Deposits are normal, and good. You want the brake pad material to transfer into the cast iron rotors. That's brake bedding. But, this layer has to be even, otherwise you have a 'grab' / 'slip' / 'grab / 'slip' chaos pattern that sets up a vibration with the brakes that transfers to the steering wheel. Replace the pads, massively rebed them in until smoking, or sand them down.. voila.. the chudder is gone for 2 months. .. until the uneven deposits come back. All cars get uneven deposits. Its the darned suspension design of the 5 series. I have two Z3's, both with 'no dust' pads and I've never had a single problem. The suspension arms are shaped differently and come in from more of a side angle. Uneven deposits don't cause vibrations.

On the X I've had the front strut arms replaced (that replaces both sets of front bushings). Made a 15% improvement. Still violent steering wheel shake when braking above 55mph.

I've replaced the rotors, and replaced the Centric Posi-Quiet ceramic pads (near zero dust.. is the attraction to these pads) with Stop Tech Street Performance pads to introduce some bite to clean off the un-even deposits. Same pattern. All great for 3 months, then the F-ing chudder is back! AND.. my wheels are completely covered in brake dust. Worse than factory pads.

I've made the following decision; I'm replacing the rotors one last time, but I'll use slotted and cross drilled in the hopes that it will introduce some 'anti-chaos' pattern for the brake pads. I'm going back to low dust pads. If necessary, I'll replace them once a year.

Another $400 and a weekend lost.

I'm so tired of this, but I don't know what else to do. I love my X5, but I hate the fucking brakes. Blackened trashed brake dusted wheels.. after only 5 days of driving, is unacceptable. But so is massive steering wheel vibration every time I brake above 55.

Any last ditch suggestion welcome.

I've NEVER seen this problem with the stock rotors and pads. I install them weekly on customer cars without complaint. Yes, they do dust heavily but it's part of the design. The pads are a fairly soft compound which gives the best combination of cold bite and all around performance. The dusting is just part of it.

The idea of the front wheels being "blackened" after 5 days seems a little extreme but I have no idea what type of driving your doing. My 4.6is with roughly 13" rotors and massive calipers takes a couple weeks to really see the wheels darkenening but I simply clean them once a week to avoid this.

I've rarely had good luck with aftermarket pad/ rotor setups on BMW's between squealing, vibrations and erratic performance. If your sure the front end is right and tight I would pony up, get some factor Zinc coated rotors and Pagid pads and just deal with the dusting. I'd much rather have to clean my wheels more often if it meant forgoing the massive vibrations.

-Ben

[TurnAround]

Originally Posted by imola38

The idea of the front wheels being "blackened" after 5 days seems a little extreme but I have no idea what type of driving your doing. My 4.6is with roughly 13" rotors and massive calipers takes a couple weeks to really see the wheels darkenening but I simply clean them once a week to avoid this.

I've rarely had good luck with aftermarket pad/ rotor setups on BMW's between squealing, vibrations and erratic performance.

You're right. I was at the end of my rope when I wrote that. "Black" is too strong. But, yes.. they are medium gray to be sure (normally silber). One thing to factor in is that I've noticed that most of the members on the board are not from the northwest. Seattle gets the most rain in the US, Portland 2nd, and Eugene third. I live in Eugene. It rains every day or so. The rain / brake dust combo is three times darker and nastier than just new dust on newly cleaned wheels.

I've put a couple different brands of rotors and pads on both Z3's and I've never had any problems. I know a half dozen BMW owners here in town with a variety of cars.. Z3, Z4, 3, 5, 7. Some of them use non OEM rotors and pads and None of them are having issues. The predominant complaints seem to be coming from X5 owners.

Its sounding like the consensus for the board seem to be to take the X back in and go through it with the mechanic and make a plan for replacing a series of parts one at a time until the culprit is found.

THanks for all the input. I appreciate the help!