Replacement selector rod seal for (A5S390R)

[upallnight]

I would get a better insertion tool, perhaps a PVC plastic pipe that is about 1" in diameter or whatever the diameter of the seal is. I have used plastic PVC pipe from the plumbing dept at the local home improvement store to use as a driver to install oil seals.

[Chamberlin]

Originally Posted by upallnight

I would get a better insertion tool, perhaps a PVC plastic pipe that is about 1" in diameter or whatever the diameter of the seal is. I have used plastic PVC pipe from the plumbing dept at the local home improvement store to use as a driver to install oil seals.

Yea not a bad idea, or maybe an appropriately sized socket. BTW the OD is about 0.763" with the flat impingement area going down to about a 0.600" diameter before hitting the center raised ring.

[whizzkid23]

Are you having issues getting the seal over the shaft or in the bore?
The fitting over the shaft should be quite easy - it's a sealing lip that is flexible.
The fitting in the bore is actually rather tight and the seal is quite difficult to get in - but I never would suggest to grease the fitting of any seal in it's fitting bore.
The seal needs to stick in it's position with a dry, non lubricated fit. You could eventually try to use a little bit of fuel applied to the outer diameter of the seal, as some fuel will make it slippery at the start and then evaporate, leaving the seal with no lubrication once fitted. But you would have to be quite quick in applying the seal before the fuel actually evaporates. Having done this operation a few months ago, I don't think that is possible. But you could give it a try.

Long story short. I used a socket with the right diameter to push (hammering is not a option, it destroys the seal) the seal in place. Used a lever against the drive shaft to get enough force to push it in -> so the drive shaft in place comes in actually quite handy for the fitting process.

Good luck!

[oldskewel]

I did this about a month ago, summarized in post #25. I did not remove the drive shaft, although it should be easier with it removed. That post has a photo of the tool I used, but as I say there, a properly sized socket would have been at least as good, and possibly better.

I agree with upallnight's answer on orientation in post #29.

I used a little grease to help slip it on. If you really don't want to use that, I'd go to some silicone spray, but am pretty sure you will need some lubricant on there. I levered it on there using a wrecking bar similar to the one shown in the photo. The width helped me keep it aligned, and I levered against the frame rail right there behind the driveshaft. The key is to have it aligned. If you try to lever and the bushing and socket are not aligned properly, it will not work. And I do know it is tough to do all that lying on your back.

[Chamberlin]

Originally Posted by whizzkid23

Are you having issues getting the seal over the shaft or in the bore?
The fitting over the shaft should be quite easy - it's a sealing lip that is flexible.
The fitting in the bore is actually rather tight and the seal is quite difficult to get in - but I never would suggest to grease the fitting of any seal in it's fitting bore.
The seal needs to stick in it's position with a dry, non lubricated fit. You could eventually try to use a little bit of fuel applied to the outer diameter of the seal, as some fuel will make it slippery at the start and then evaporate, leaving the seal with no lubrication once fitted. But you would have to be quite quick in applying the seal before the fuel actually evaporates. Having done this operation a few months ago, I don't think that is possible. But you could give it a try.

Long story short. I used a socket with the right diameter to push (hammering is not a option, it destroys the seal) the seal in place. Used a lever against the drive shaft to get enough force to push it in -> so the drive shaft in place comes in actually quite handy for the fitting process.

Good luck!

Good info regarding no lube, but I can't see how this is going to go on without something, even some trans fluid maybe. And my drive-shaft is removed BTW so the lever action you described wouldn't be possible unless I re-install first. But it did seem like it was having a harder time getting over the shaft, vs. going into the bore, but that might have been an illusion. Maybe I need to re-try assuming it's the outer bore that's fighting back!

[Chamberlin]

Originally Posted by oldskewel

I did this about a month ago, summarized in post #25. I did not remove the drive shaft, although it should be easier with it removed. That post has a photo of the tool I used, but as I say there, a properly sized socket would have been at least as good, and possibly better.

I agree with upallnight's answer on orientation in post #29.

I used a little grease to help slip it on. If you really don't want to use that, I'd go to some silicone spray, but am pretty sure you will need some lubricant on there. I levered it on there using a wrecking bar similar to the one shown in the photo. The width helped me keep it aligned, and I levered against the frame rail right there behind the driveshaft. The key is to have it aligned. If you try to lever and the bushing and socket are not aligned properly, it will not work. And I do know it is tough to do all that lying on your back.

I've got the car on a QuickJack, so plenty of maneuverability, I'm just surprised the tool the seal comes with isn't adequate for insertion. I was hoping for a firm palm-push followed by a light tap with a deadblow hammer, and be done! I would almost think trying to install the seal without lubrication has more potential for seal damage, than the lubrication being bad for the sealing action overall. So maybe a little silicone spray will be the ticket.


Thanks to both you guys-

[whizzkid23]

Originally Posted by Chamberlin

Good info regarding no lube, but I can't see how this is going to go on without something, even some trans fluid maybe. And my drive-shaft is removed BTW so the lever action you described wouldn't be possible unless I re-install first. But it did seem like it was having a harder time getting over the shaft, vs. going into the bore, but that might have been an illusion. Maybe I need to re-try assuming it's the outer bore that's fighting back!

The friction you are encountering when mounting the seal can only come from the outer bore. The selector rod has to be free to rotate, so it's absolutely not a tight fit when speaking about the shaft / seal clearance.


This said, the seal is hold in place only by the tight outer bore / seal clearance. Obviously, because of that, it's supposed to be a tight fit, the seal should not move once installed. Applying lubricant on the outside of the seal will not compromise it's ability to seal... it will only lower the ability of the seal to hold itself in place.


For sure I was also tempted to add some lubricant to make the job easier. But hey...after 12 years of service, the old seal seal moved toward the outside on it's own (generating the leak) so that given and including my knowledge on mounting rotary shaft seals, I did not do it.


For your reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDVzAtU8xDc


Minute 2:10 ...




Anyway. If you decide to mount it without lubrication, due to it's tight fit, you will probably NOT be able to get the seal in place without a leverage force. Eventually it could help to first let the transmission warm up (heat will increase the size of the seal bore on the transmission) but you will still need a "press" action. Pay a lot of attention on getting the seal pushed in straight,mostly for the first mm, this is vital! Also...choose a socket that will applicate the force as close as possible to the outside diameter of the seal! The more you go towards the inner bore of the seal, the weaker it's structure gets!


If you decide to mount it with some minor lubricant, it will eventually work and hold in place. Noone can tell if the fitting is tight enough to take some lubricant or not....only time will tell. But no major damage will ocurr if the seal moves towards the outside on it's own... the only thing that could happen is that it starts to leak again. So if you're not able to get it on safely without lubricant, try it this way. Probably 8 out of 10 mechanics would do it...

[80stech]

The rubber coated seal needs to be and should be lubricated for installation. There also probably is a slight burr on the end of the shaft where the lever goes against which needs to be dealt with for the installation tool to fit over since it is a close fit. Some sort of sleeve should be used over the shaft if possible as well. The BMW version of the seal installer comes with plastic sleeves.

[upallnight]

You can use a lubricant that I use for my bicycles. It's called "White Lightning". It a lubricant suspended in an alcohol solution. Eventually, the alcohol will evaporate.

[oldskewel]

Originally Posted by Chamberlin

Good info regarding no lube, but I can't see how this is going to go on without something, even some trans fluid maybe. And my drive-shaft is removed BTW so the lever action you described wouldn't be possible unless I re-install first. But it did seem like it was having a harder time getting over the shaft, vs. going into the bore, but that might have been an illusion. Maybe I need to re-try assuming it's the outer bore that's fighting back!

ATF as lube sounds like an ideal choice. Definitely won't have any chemical incompatibility there, which is the main thing to be concerned with. Does not have the benefit of grease staying in place better, but you just need it to stay in place for a short time.

But when I did mine, I did not lever against the drive shaft. I was worried I might tweak that and cause an imabalance, so I hardly touched it. There is a frame rail outboard of the driveshaft that I levered against.