VALLEY PAN LEAK OR...?????

[kipp]

First of all, a million thanks to whoever wrote this DIY procedure:

http://www.xoutpost.com/article/BMW%...n%20Gasket.pdf

Without it, I would not have been able to this job myself. There are invaluable tips that get you through some very challenging spots. I might add to it, if anyone is about to do the job and wants to reach out to me.

HOWEVER...much to my horror, my X5 (2003 4.6is) is still leaking coolant. I used Permatex ultra black gasket maker and was very careful when making the gasket for the valley pan cover, and replaced my water manifold gaskets. I can't imagine its coming from either of those spots...or could it? How easy is it to screw that up?

Does anyone have a clue as to where else the coolant could be leaking from? God forbid I didn't get something back on correctly. Doing the job again is unthinkable.

I'm finding about a half cup of coolant (or less) on my garage floor. Its definitely coming from the back of the engine.

Any feedback? Thoughts? Advise? How should I go about trying to pinpoint the source?

Cheers

[TwinTurboGTR]

First off, you are welcome! I am glad it is being put to good use.

As for the coolant loss, lets reverse this.

So how are you seeing coolant on the floor and knowing it is from the back of the motor?

When you took the top end apart, did you securely fasten the bolts to the water accumulator?

What about the O-rings? Did you lubricate them before putting them in? Did they go into the grooves and seat properly?

I am assuming using the Black RTV, you reused your valley pan. Scraped the gasket off, reapplied the thin bead, let it set for an hour and then se seated it correct? Did the gasket, after you torqued it spill out the sides a bit.. did it squeeze out evenly?

Get back to us.

[kipp]

Originally Posted by TwinTurboGTR

First off, you are welcome! I am glad it is being put to good use.

As for the coolant loss, lets reverse this.

So how are you seeing coolant on the floor and knowing it is from the back of the motor?

When you took the top end apart, did you securely fasten the bolts to the water accumulator?

What about the O-rings? Did you lubricate them before putting them in? Did they go into the grooves and seat properly?

I am assuming using the Black RTV, you reused your valley pan. Scraped the gasket off, reapplied the thin bead, let it set for an hour and then se seated it correct? Did the gasket, after you torqued it spill out the sides a bit.. did it squeeze out evenly?

Get back to us.

I park my car over a sheet of dry wall to catch drips. When I see a drip, I lay out some paper towel so I can better identify the fluid. In this case its coolant coming off the the back of the motor, towards the drivers side. If the car's been fully warmed up and been driven about 15 minutes I get about a half cup of coolant on the floor...lets say it sat there for a few hours after driving.

The bolts were fastened correctly. I'd like to point out that initially I could not get the water accumulator back on for some time, and I discovered that there was a piece of the old gasket stick to the engine. After that I made sure all the surfaces were clean...and only then could all the bolts line up and get fully tightened.

You mention the o-rings. I did not lubricate them. Is that just about a guarantee of leakage?

I did put a nice bead of RTV on there and let it set up for about an hour while resting on the engine head in position. I cam back and tightened it down just a wee bit. And in another 30 minutes tightened it down fully. It did not squeeze out in all areas. I would find it difficult to believe this would be such an easy thing to screw up. You're just putting enough on there to close an already very very small gap between the valley pan cover and the block.

[Skyline]

What you need to do is pressurize the system with a coolant pressure tester, and look for the leak. I recommend removing the entire cabin filter assembly and the engine cover. You need to get the car on a lift and look from below, and also look from the top. To look from the top, you really need to climb up on top of the car and get your head as far back as possible. Arm yourself with an inspection mirror and bright light. Feel around all the hoses until you feel something wet.

[kipp]

Originally Posted by Skyline

What you need to do is pressurize the system with a coolant pressure tester, and look for the leak. I recommend removing the entire cabin filter assembly and the engine cover. You need to get the car on a lift and look from below, and also look from the top. To look from the top, you really need to climb up on top of the car and get your head as far back as possible. Arm yourself with an inspection mirror and bright light. Feel around all the hoses until you feel something wet.

You know, you learn something every day. I was not aware of a coolant pressurizer. I was imagining myself heating the system up real good by driving it and crawling around on a hot engine trying to find the leak.

Where do I find one of these tools? This should make it easy to locate...

[Skyline]

Originally Posted by kipp

You know, you learn something every day. I was not aware of a coolant pressurizer. I was imagining myself heating the system up real good by driving it and crawling around on a hot engine trying to find the leak.

Where do I find one of these tools? This should make it easy to locate...

Here's one that is a nice set:

Cooling System Tools Astro 7858 Astro Pneumatic 7858 - Universal Radiator Pressure Tester

The key with these, is that there are many different sized radiator caps...so you need the right adapter for your car. AST (Assenmacher Specialty Tools), is well know for making good quality adapters, and you could buy just the one you need, (they run about $50 ea.). Both Stant and Snap-on sell the pump/gauge thing with only one or two basic adapters. Blue point sells a set of adapters. But the set referenced above does appear to be pretty complete, and is the one I used to test mine, (it came off a MAC Truck).

Here's the Snap-on version:
Pump:
SVTS262C, Tester, Cooling System

Adapters:
SVTA17000, Set, Cooling System Adaptors, 17 pcs.

Just the adapter for BMW:

TAB10345, Adaptor, Radiator, (for SVTS262B Cooling Tester)

As you can see, the adapters can get VERY costly. And the above Snap-on one's are metal/plastic. The AST are all aluminum, and a bit nicer. Both USA made. The first set linked are all metal as well, and pretty nice IMO, but totally Chicom.

Another reason to test the system cold is that sometimes it will only leak cold....

Pump the system up to about 15lbs, and leaks should show up. Except if it's leaking into a cylinder. Mine was pretty much holding pressure, but a slight defect in a hose showed up as a VERY small dribble from a connection point. If the system does not hold pressure, and there's no sign of leaks, time to pull the intake. Assuming there's no sign of smoke in the exhaust. There are ways to test for bad head gaskets, (chemically test for cross contamination of oil to water), such as this:
GDCT16, Tester, Combustion Leak

As tight as the V8 cars are in the area near the firewall, a fibre-optic camera is not a bad tool to have on hand as well; not to mention a lift.

[HPIA4v2]

Originally Posted by Skyline

Here's one that is a nice set:

Cooling System Tools Astro 7858 Astro Pneumatic 7858 - Universal Radiator Pressure Tester

The key with these, is that there are many different sized radiator caps...so you need the right adapter for your car. AST (Assenmacher Specialty Tools), is well know for making good quality adapters, and you could buy just the one you need, (they run about $50 ea.). Both Stant and Snap-on sell the pump/gauge thing with only one or two basic adapters. Blue point sells a set of adapters. But the set referenced above does appear to be pretty complete, and is the one I used to test mine, (it came off a MAC Truck).

Here's the Snap-on version:
Pump:
SVTS262C, Tester, Cooling System

Adapters:
SVTA17000, Set, Cooling System Adaptors, 17 pcs.

Just the adapter for BMW:

TAB10345, Adaptor, Radiator, (for SVTS262B Cooling Tester)

As you can see, the adapters can get VERY costly. And the above Snap-on one's are metal/plastic. The AST are all aluminum, and a bit nicer. Both USA made. The first set linked are all metal as well, and pretty nice IMO, but totally Chicom.

Another reason to test the system cold is that sometimes it will only leak cold....

Pump the system up to about 15lbs, and leaks should show up. Except if it's leaking into a cylinder. Mine was pretty much holding pressure, but a slight defect in a hose showed up as a VERY small dribble from a connection point. If the system does not hold pressure, and there's no sign of leaks, time to pull the intake. Assuming there's no sign of smoke in the exhaust. There are ways to test for bad head gaskets, (chemically test for cross contamination of oil to water), such as this:
GDCT16, Tester, Combustion Leak

As tight as the V8 cars are in the area near the firewall, a fibre-optic camera is not a bad tool to have on hand as well; not to mention a lift.

I've got mine from HarborFreight:
Radiator & Cooling System Pressure Tester Kit

strange, it's rather well made unlike most stuffs HarborFreight carries.

[Skyline]

Originally Posted by HPIA4v2

I've got mine from HarborFreight:
Radiator & Cooling System Pressure Tester Kit

strange, it's rather well made unlike most stuffs HarborFreight carries.

Obviously Chicom, as with everything at HF, but are those adapters plastic or metal?

[kipp]

Originally Posted by Skyline

Here's one that is a nice set:

Cooling System Tools Astro 7858 Astro Pneumatic 7858 - Universal Radiator Pressure Tester

The key with these, is that there are many different sized radiator caps...so you need the right adapter for your car. AST (Assenmacher Specialty Tools), is well know for making good quality adapters, and you could buy just the one you need, (they run about $50 ea.). Both Stant and Snap-on sell the pump/gauge thing with only one or two basic adapters. Blue point sells a set of adapters. But the set referenced above does appear to be pretty complete, and is the one I used to test mine, (it came off a MAC Truck).

Here's the Snap-on version:
Pump:
SVTS262C, Tester, Cooling System

Adapters:
SVTA17000, Set, Cooling System Adaptors, 17 pcs.

Just the adapter for BMW:

TAB10345, Adaptor, Radiator, (for SVTS262B Cooling Tester)

As you can see, the adapters can get VERY costly. And the above Snap-on one's are metal/plastic. The AST are all aluminum, and a bit nicer. Both USA made. The first set linked are all metal as well, and pretty nice IMO, but totally Chicom.

Another reason to test the system cold is that sometimes it will only leak cold....

Pump the system up to about 15lbs, and leaks should show up. Except if it's leaking into a cylinder. Mine was pretty much holding pressure, but a slight defect in a hose showed up as a VERY small dribble from a connection point. If the system does not hold pressure, and there's no sign of leaks, time to pull the intake. Assuming there's no sign of smoke in the exhaust. There are ways to test for bad head gaskets, (chemically test for cross contamination of oil to water), such as this:
GDCT16, Tester, Combustion Leak

As tight as the V8 cars are in the area near the firewall, a fibre-optic camera is not a bad tool to have on hand as well; not to mention a lift.

FANTASTIC INFO. Many thanks. I wish I had money to burn. I'll look for cheaper alternative...

[Skyline]

Originally Posted by kipp

FANTASTIC INFO. Many thanks. I wish I had money to burn. I'll look for cheaper alternative...

That's what eBay is for...used profesional mechanic's tools at a fraction of new cost! You can get a Stant coolant pressure tester for about $35-40 used, and then all you need is the BMW adapter. The AST adapter you need will come up once in a while. Or you could get the Snap-on tester used for about $65.

I have a VERY well equipped garage, and most of the tools came from eBay or Craig's List.