THE X5 to have...

[SlickGT1]

Originally Posted by Bayerische E53

That's definitely a rare car and a pretty good deal to boot. I bought my 2005 6 M/T 6 months ago - AW Exterior/SW Interior with slightly fewer miles and I paid just under $20K. Granted, the interior and engine compartment on my car are absolutely flawless (those on this car are a bit rough) but still. I wish mine had no sunroof (I have a pano.) - it would be up there in rarity with this one. That said, what a wicked little car (although it does need some love).



That's one way of looking at it. Another way to look at it is to say "too bad the 4.8is is missing one pedal and a proper valvetrain/throttle operation unit." To me, pedal count + simplicity > cylinder or displacement count

True. I was torn between the 4.8is and a 6MT, but couldn't live with 3.Slow. But, if the stars allign, there is a guy on the forum that might have a 6MT swap kit for us. So I pray every day he comes through.

[DTMdan]

With the exception of non-sport pkg that is perfect.

[LeMansX5]

The service manager at the dealer in NY where I bought my X5 in 2005 had a Estoril 3.0. Wonder if its the same.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Bayerische E53

^ (The sunroof cassette weighs 35lbs and the non-sunroof sheet-metal weighs 5lbs less than the sunroof version. Also, the tow capacity is 6,000lbs, not 5,000.)

In any event, I highly doubt the owner ordered it that way for weight's/performance's sake. I find it hard to believe that an enthusiast would be quite that daft. I'm sure he did it for simplicity. In a modern street car - any modern street car - I value simplicity over weight any day of the week. Forget fuel economy. If you're buying an SUV, you have no standing to complain about fuel economy.

There is all this talk about "drivers' cars." People think it's all about weight - rubbish; it's not - not in the 21st Century. In the 21st Century it's, at least, equally about simplicity and cleanliness. I say this because there's no such thing as "light weight" cars (i.e. "driver's cars" in the traditional sense) in the 21st Century that are actually usable (I don't want to hear any Lotus Elise talk; cars like that are far from usable). In the 21st century, "drivers' cars" have more to do with simplicity than with low weight. The new M3 weighs 4,000lbs. My brother just bought an E90 M3 stripper (cloth interior, no options, no sunroof); it weighs 3,700lbs. People might argue that that's a driver's car. In my opinion, it's as close as you can get to a usable "driver's car" in the 21st century. However, no matter how you cut the pie, a 3,700lbs "street sports car," no matter how well it handles, is just not a "driver's car" in the traditional sense.

Yeah, that's a tangent. Whoops.

To me, this X5 is sweet. I love the fact that it has a proper transmission and doesn't have gadgets and gizmos. I absolutely lover the sunroof delete. My only complaint is that it's not AW (yeah, I'm an AW whore). If there was such a thing as a "drivers' SUV," I reckon only this and the 1st Generation Porsche Cayenne GTS with the 6-Speed Manual would qualify. Of course, the GTS would totally one-up the 6 M/T X5 from a power perspective, but I'm just making a point. In any event, I bet the X5 is much simpler and lighter than the GTS. To me, that's more important than the power. Tomato/Tomahto, I'd think (especially if you put a suspension/brake/wheel package on the X5 that is as equally impressive as that which came standard on the 1st Generation GTS).

If cars these days are so heavy, why do you not want the most power available in the model offered? With the X5, the mileage is essentially the same from the 3.0 to the 4.8. To argue otherwise is silly. When you say a proper transmission, what exactly do you mean? If a manual is so perfect, why are all manufacturers going away from a manual? It's all about preference for the individual. There's no such thing as "proper" or perfect.

[Bayerische E53]

Originally Posted by SlickGT1

True. I was torn between the 4.8is and a 6MT, but couldn't live with 3.Slow. But, if the stars allign, there is a guy on the forum that might have a 6MT swap kit for us. So I pray every day he comes through.

Whaaa? Please explain...

If this actually happens, I'm going to be like:

[Skyline]

Originally Posted by dinan e39

If a manual is so perfect, why are all manufacturers going away from a manual?

For one thing, automatics are getting better and better. Aside from the computer controlled clutchless manuals, (DSG, SMG or whatever; these shift faster than humanly possible), regular auto boxes are getting SO much better. More gears for better gas mileage, and they are much better at putting themselves in the right gear and anticipating your needs. Many conventional automatics now rev-match on downshifts, a big pet peeve I used to have. I drove a Carrera S a few years back with Tiptronic, (lacking this rev matching). I downshifted just before the apex of a corner, and the rear wheels locked up for a moment. I got quite sideways. No thanks. Today's Tiptronic would rev-match perfectly. From a performance and control standpoint, the advantages of a manual are shrinking, maybe already gone in many cars. All that's left is the extra hassle.

I wonder if so many V8 X5 owners would still be longing for a manual if the automatic were up to the best of today.... AND reliable.

[Ricky Bobby]

WOW, if i found that earlier i honestly would have considered selling my '03 sport 5-speed with 66k miles for a slightly newer X, rarer color, and a sixth gear. What a steal at 11k, i paid 14 for mine a year ago.


The guys on this forum who are manual transmission purists, know what a great find that was. Then there's the "more power" crowd, who don't care about driving a stick, they just care about going fast and only think you can enjoy an X5 if you have 2 more cylinders.

I am a purist, I couldn't enjoy my X as much if I didnt row my own gears. Beating people stoplight to stoplight? I have a motorcycle for that, I don't need to use my 2.5 ton grocery getter SUV.


Even epdarks with his Dinan 4.6is appreciates the rarity and value in a 6 speed 3.0, and he has more power than most on the forum.

[SlickGT1]

Guys it didn't sell for $11k, it was removed from auction by seller at $11k. It most likely sold for closer to $17, with those options. At $11k it would be something. I doubt it sold for that little.

And the manual swap thread for us N62 guys. Note, he has a manual in his M62 already.
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...-manual-3.html

[epdarks]

It seems that manufacturers are going away from manual transmissions due to consumer demand, not because the mfg's are pushing autos over manuals. As the autos and sequential manual boxes get better, as Skyline said, more people want them.

Now, in my humble opinion, the underlying force behind this demand is that people like "new tech", the latest and greatest, they are buying these new autos not only for the function but to be ahead of the technology curve.

As tech gets better and better we will reach a point of diminishing returns. In the example of SMG/DCT transmissions... they will hit a peak balancing fast gear shifts with the ultimate usability day to day.

As all consumer choices come in cycles, the "fad" of the high-tech SMG gearbox will blow over. What happened to just having fun behind the wheel, regardless if you are .1 seconds slower to 60 MPH?

IMO, manual transmissions will see a resurgence in the near future. With that, rare manual transmission vehicles will become more desirable in a sea of automatics.

Just a theory in my head, take it with a grain of salt, but I believe there will always be a core group of people seeking to purchase the good old fashioned 3 pedal manual transmission.

[Ricky Bobby]

well said from a man with a lot of power in his truck!