X5 problem with cold weather -Start shakes, misfires

[Whitecat]

Great stuff upallnight - i take note....boy i was at this to buy cayenne and switch last minute for the X5 ...misfire ...misfeeling ...will see

Take care

[diyanich]

My 2000 m62 never had a single misfire even during the coldest winter days,no matter if sited outside or in the garage.I live in Maritimes.
A friend of mine's got a n62 and he gets misfires now.
I always use a midgrade gasoline with exceptions of premium when it's really hot in a summer.
So,don't blame on canadian winter nor BMW in particular,try unplugging your MAF first and try a lower grade fuel,also a thing to consider,never drive to an almost empty tank in a winter,keep tank 3/4 full.That was advised here a lot a while ago.

Originally Posted by Marc D

Great stuff upallnight - i take note....boy i was at this to buy cayenne and switch last minute for the X5 ...misfire ...misfeeling ...will see

Take care

[X5SND]

Originally Posted by upallnight

Lower grade fuel in the states normally have more ethanol which is just alcohol. Alcohol displace water so that may be the reason the dealer recommends a switch to a lower grade fuel.

Canadian fuels aren't normally supplemented with ethanol. Also, ethanol in its pure form has an octane rating some where in the 110-120 range if I remember correctly.....which will increase the compression threshold before detonation (ie makes it harder to ignite.) The only fuel that sometimes has ethanol is regular, but that varies depending on station.

Originally Posted by diyanich

My 2000 m62 never had a single misfire even during the coldest winter days,no matter if sited outside or in the garage.I live in Maritimes.
A friend of mine's got a n62 and he gets misfires now.
I always use a midgrade gasoline with exceptions of premium when it's really hot in a summer.
So,don't blame on canadian winter nor BMW in particular,try unplugging your MAF first and try a lower grade fuel,also a thing to consider,never drive to an almost empty tank in a winter,keep tank 3/4 full.That was advised here a lot a while ago.

First off, the maritimes don't get nearly as cold as cold the prairies.... Y'all get beach weather winters to what were use to! Lol. Secondly, the "never drive on a tank less than 3/4 full" really only serves to provide extra fuel if you happen to get stuck/stranded somewhere, it's irrelevant as far as misfires on cold starts go. Fuel pumps use the fuel they are submersed in as a cooling medium...

Originally Posted by Marc D

Thanks x5NSD - i'm located in Montreal so you and me know the -30 degrees feeling ...
So this problem seems to be at large/ normal to E53 under cold weather...the German should come in our country to make their test..would love to see this bulletin ?

Tx again

Ill have to stop in at the stealer one of these days, as usually around this time of year they have the thing posted all over the service departments .

Automobile manufacturers do do cold weather testing in northern Manitoba....just about every year, you'll see an article in the local news paper annually when they settle in.

[upallnight]

Originally Posted by X5SND

Canadian fuels aren't normally supplemented with ethanol. Also, ethanol in its pure form has an octane rating some where in the 110-120 range if I remember correctly.....which will increase the compression threshold before detonation (ie makes it harder to ignite.) The only fuel that sometimes has ethanol is regular, but that varies depending on station.

Gasoline companies in the States are only allow to blend ethanol with gasoline so that only 10% of the final product will be ethanol. I notice that when I fill the X with premium some gas some companies put a sticker that their premium gas does not contain ethanol.

[Turbo_Bimmer]

Marc, it sounds like the intermediate levers problem. All 2004-06 engines (N62) use this system to control the throttle. Sometimes they wear and do the problem you have. Fixing it is a bit expensive. Most people experiencing this problem just turn the engine off and restart it like you do.

This is a known problem and there are many threads on this subject on this forum. Here is one example:
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...-need-fix.html

BTW, I see you are from Montréal, are you a member of the BMW club?

[JCL]

Originally Posted by X5SND

Canadian fuels aren't normally supplemented with ethanol.

Yes, they are. It is required by federal law, in fact. Fuel companies are required to comply with the 5% rule, but it is averaged across their sales, it is not based on an individual sale. That is why they put different amounts of ethanol in each grade.

Also, ethanol in its pure form has an octane rating some where in the 110-120 range if I remember correctly.....which will increase the compression threshold before detonation (ie makes it harder to ignite.) The only fuel that sometimes has ethanol is regular, but that varies depending on station.

While pure ethanol has an AKI or octane rating over 100 (I can't recall either, but E85 is 105 AKI), it doesn't follow that blending unleaded fuel and ethanol will just give you a ratio of the two AKI ratings. It isn't linear, to start. Also, ethanol isn't stable in terms of water content, so the AKI you get at time of blending is rapidly reduced (by up to 3 points of AKI) due to water absorbtion in the normal course of things. The result is that in practice, often times ethanol blended fuels have lower AKI ratings than are advertised.

Normal practice in many provinces is more ethanol in lower grades, reducing in higher grades, but it isn't all or nothing, since the point of sale pumps are blending pumps these days. If you have ethanol in the regular, you have to get some of it in all except the top grade.

First off, the maritimes don't get nearly as cold as cold the prairies.... Y'all get beach weather winters to what were use to! Lol. Secondly, the "never drive on a tank less than 3/4 full" really only serves to provide extra fuel if you happen to get stuck/stranded somewhere, it's irrelevant as far as misfires on cold starts go. Fuel pumps use the fuel they are submersed in as a cooling medium...

The reason it matters how much fuel you keep in your tank is that more room on top of the fuel provides more opportunity for moisture. That moisture matters more when you have ethanol in the fuel, due to the ethanol absorbing water. The result is more misfiring.

All of the above assumes that motorists are getting the correct amount of ethanol. Fuel companies are using much more than they need to, likely motivated by profit. There are simple test kits available that can be used to determine the actual ethanol content, so as not to just rely on what the label on the pump says.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by upallnight

Gasoline companies in the States are only allow to blend ethanol with gasoline so that only 10% of the final product will be ethanol. I notice that when I fill the X with premium some gas some companies put a sticker that their premium gas does not contain ethanol.

Dealers will tell you about their experience in testing fuels after customer complaints of misfires, and finding 20% or more ethanol (and the associated water). There is the law, and there is reality. Assuming there is no more than 10% is like assuming nobody speeds.

[diyanich]

As many pointed out,the most problematic temperatures are close to the freezing point,you find those across Canada.
Manitoba is indeed cold,but,unfortunately,we get a fair share of cold weeks here too.
I used to have an e36 M44 318i a while ago and it would misfire like a bitch even with PetroCanada "winter gas",while my X always fired with no problems,at times I was getting a slow cranking,but never a single misfire.
Only once or twice I had an Engine FailSafe because of a frozen throttle Body flap.First time it happened while X was at the transmission shop for 2 weeks siting outside with -25 daily and had just enough fuel until a gas station( 19 kms left when you check the range on OBC).
Second time it happened when it was almost empty as well and I went on a trip.So,no more low on fuel driving in a winter,even if it's an extra weight and increased consumption.
This is my experience.

Originally Posted by X5SND

Canadian fuels aren't normally supplemented with ethanol. Also, ethanol in its pure form has an octane rating some where in the 110-120 range if I remember correctly.....which will increase the compression threshold before detonation (ie makes it harder to ignite.) The only fuel that sometimes has ethanol is regular, but that varies depending on station.



First off, the maritimes don't get nearly as cold as cold the prairies.... Y'all get beach weather winters to what were use to! Lol. Secondly, the "never drive on a tank less than 3/4 full" really only serves to provide extra fuel if you happen to get stuck/stranded somewhere, it's irrelevant as far as misfires on cold starts go. Fuel pumps use the fuel they are submersed in as a cooling medium...



Ill have to stop in at the stealer one of these days, as usually around this time of year they have the thing posted all over the service departments .

Automobile manufacturers do do cold weather testing in northern Manitoba....just about every year, you'll see an article in the local news paper annually when they settle in.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Turbo_Bimmer

Marc, it sounds like the intermediate levers problem. All 2004-06 engines (N62) use this system to control the throttle. Sometimes they wear and do the problem you have. Fixing it is a bit expensive. Most people experiencing this problem just turn the engine off and restart it like you do.

This is a known problem and there are many threads on this subject on this forum. Here is one example:
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...-need-fix.html

BTW, I see you are from Montréal, are you a member of the BMW club?

I'm with turbo on this one. Sounds like intermediate levers to me as well. Does the check engine light flash when it occurs?

[Whitecat]

Allright big thanks to all of you for the input !
At this point, i will deal with it with the turn on/off/on work around. Need to find a good mechanic and meantime check with the fuel alternative

Now i have to explain that to the wife ..you should see her face when this happend ...bought the X5 30 days ago...

@ turbo - bimmer : i'm located in deux montagnes - will love to join the club
@ roadkill : Yes flash and than stay on ...