Dealer Blows my 4.8is engine!

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Sweep_the_Leg

A quick cars.com search shows a few 4.8is around the country with close to 50K on the clock. They run as high as $29K (seems too high). There are quite a few in the 70-80K range, which are closer to the $23K offered.

I would counter their $23K offer with $29K, plus they cover any shipping costs for an equivalent replacement 4.8is, plus they continue to let you use a loaner until you finalize the deal for the new one. If you can't find one you like in the 50K mileage range, then buy one with higher mileage and make another stipulation of the settlement that the dealer covers a year or two of extended warranty coverage (to make up for the mileage difference).

It seems clear that the cost and logistical challenges of replacing the engine mean that you should wave goodbye to your car (which is sad and frustrating, I know). But realistically, an engine swap would make me more nervous than just biting the bullet and buying a new 4.8is.

Incidentally, I'm an attorney. Although I don't practice in WA, I'm happy to provide you with a "second opinion" of sorts, and I can give you an idea of what you may be in for if you choose to go the litigation route (hint: a long wait, added frustration and delay, and ultimately probably less satisfaction than you were hoping for).

Best advice yet. Spoken from a law tactition. Have them give you as much as you can get and buy a new car.

[jspdr]

Originally Posted by Bnagy4.8

The insurance company would only give me 19k which is as much as good trade in, not retail. Why they don't do retail is beyond me. They offered a compensation amount of 3k for a new vehicle. The only problem is that you can't find x5 4.8is SUVs in great condition anywhere with 50k miles. So I would have to settle with something else or pay significantly more on payments and out if pocket costs for a down payment which isn't fair to get back into something comparable.

The settlement amount is negotiable. I had a similar situation with a dealer, we negotiated and finally they agreed to pay what i asked for without suit filed. Remember it is a insurance now you are dealing with, whoever bends over first will loose. Since your truck is unique in model and mileage, that i think you have a upper hand to negotiate. As the attorney mentioned above, a similar truck is asking closer to $29k, print those out to back up your reasonable request. See how far you can go before have your attorney get involve to negotiate. You are driving dealer's car anyway.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by upallnight

If they over filled the engine with oil like they said they did, they would have hydro locked the engine. Remember back in high school physics (are kids still require to take H.S. Physics?) that liquid can not be compressed, so if enough oil got into the cylinders and the valves are closed the oil has no where to go and you can't compress a liquid so something has to give.

They could have removed the spark plugs and drain the oil from the cylinders and sump. And if they were lucky they might had dodge a bullet and the engine will still run.

An engine is hydro locked when oil is ingested through the intake into the combustion chamber, not when too much oil is in the sump.

Overfilling causes the crankshaft to whip up the oil and incorporate air bubbles. Air doesn't lubricate. Engine seizes.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Sweep_the_Leg

I would counter their $23K offer with $29K, plus they cover any shipping costs for an equivalent replacement 4.8is, plus they continue to let you use a loaner until you finalize the deal for the new one. If you can't find one you like in the 50K mileage range, then buy one with higher mileage and make another stipulation of the settlement that the dealer covers a year or two of extended warranty coverage (to make up for the mileage difference).

It seems clear that the cost and logistical challenges of replacing the engine mean that you should wave goodbye to your car (which is sad and frustrating, I know). But realistically, an engine swap would make me more nervous than just biting the bullet and buying a new 4.8is.

Also, ask that you be allowed to remove any mods from your car that you want to keep.

You may not get $29k, but you should be able to get enough to buy a comparable vehicle.

[upallnight]

Originally Posted by JCL

An engine is hydro locked when oil is ingested through the intake into the combustion chamber, not when too much oil is in the sump.

Overfilling causes the crankshaft to whip up the oil and incorporate air bubbles. Air doesn't lubricate. Engine seizes.

Air doesn't lubricate, but the pickup for the oil pump is normally at the bottom of the sump and if I recall from my H.S. physics air is lighter then oil so it will be at the top of the sump. I kinda doubt if they had the engine running for that great of a time period that the engine would have seize due to air in the oil.

Back in my teen days my brother and I drove a Opel with the oil light on for 10 miles before it finally seized. And prior to the engine seizing you would have heard all the rods knocking. If the tech didn't hear all the rods knocking prior to the engine seizing than that is negligence on the tech's part.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by upallnight

Air doesn't lubricate, but the pickup for the oil pump is normally at the bottom of the sump and if I recall from my H.S. physics air is lighter then oil so it will be at the top of the sump. I kinda doubt if they had the engine running for that great of a time period that the engine would have seize due to air in the oil.

The crankshaft works exactly the same as the blade in your kitchen blender, if the oil level is high enough for the counterweights to contact the oil surface. When you incorporate air into the oil by whipping it, the air is entrapped. The oil turns foamy, sort of like a malted milk beverage. The weight of the air is irrelevant.

The pump picks up this blended mixture, and the oil/air misture can no longer perform its lubrication task, since a high percentage of it is air bubbles. Cranks and rod bearings are the first to go.

Highschool autoshop (it ran right after Physics 12).

[Bnagy4.8]

Update: After a long conversation with the insurance company yet again, the insurance company is going back to the board to see what they can do. At the same time I have involved my insurance company to prevent them from diminishing my cars value. Being that this car is owned my bank they will not allow my vehicle to receive a rebuilt, reconstructed, branded, totaled title.

I got in touch again with my legal advisor/attorney and they said that "if" they put used engine into my vehicle (which they have the right to do) and my value of the car is compromised (which it will) then they are required to pay me for the loss in value based off of a car appraisers opinion. They also suggested that we contact my insurance to get them in the loop on the issue so they can "lean" on the insurance company for BMW.

I will keep this thread updated on any progress.

[Gregory891]

A little late BUT BMW does offer exchange engines (they are new, you need to return the old core engine) and has done so since the 1950's (this existed even for the vintage 501, 502, 503, etc.).

Go to realoem and put in your VIN (last 7 digits). Look in group 11 (engine), you'll see the short engine. List is $19 K but a BMW dealer buys this at SIGNIFICANTLY less (about 50 to 60%). You'd need some new gaskets, etc. but this would net you the same car you have with a NEW, zero hour engine. Probably 10 to 15 hours of labor (which the dealer would have to absorb anyway as it's their error).

[bastereo]

Originally Posted by Gregory891

A little late BUT BMW does offer exchange engines (they are new, you need to return the old core engine) and has done so since the 1950's (this existed even for the vintage 501, 502, 503, etc.).

Go to realoem and put in your VIN (last 7 digits). Look in group 11 (engine), you'll see the short engine. List is $19 K but a BMW dealer buys this at SIGNIFICANTLY less (about 50 to 60%). You'd need some new gaskets, etc. but this would net you the same car you have with a NEW, zero hour engine. Probably 10 to 15 hours of labor (which the dealer would have to absorb anyway as it's their error).

Dealers don't typically make but 20-30% engines/transmissions (I can't speak for BMW) and the labor time to replace the long block on that truck is 29.4 hours
And he said early on it was not available through BMW

[xsx450]

I would seriously negotiate with the 23k offered from the dealer. IMO thats a great starting point. Counter with 29k and the adds for the comparable x5's.

Like any other negotiations don't settle until 3 "NO"'s I would say even getting them up to 24-25k would be a good bargain to just take the money and RUN.

The rest of the fiasco will NOT be worth it once you factor in time, stress, and/or piece of mind with anything they provide you with vehicle wise.

It might not happen TOMORROW, but 23-25k you will find a comparable 4.8is

05 - 75k for 23k
2005 BMW X5 4.8is 75k miles

05 call for mileage for 24k
2005 BMW X5 X5 4dr AWD 4.8is with Rear Window Defroster

06 with 90k for 19
▓ 2006 BMW X5 4.8is Navigation AWD

I know the situation isnt ideal man but you have to cut your losses, and the offer on the table isnt half bad.