Dealer Blows my 4.8is engine!

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Sweep_the_Leg

A quick cars.com search shows a few 4.8is around the country with close to 50K on the clock. They run as high as $29K (seems too high). There are quite a few in the 70-80K range, which are closer to the $23K offered.

I would counter their $23K offer with $29K, plus they cover any shipping costs for an equivalent replacement 4.8is, plus they continue to let you use a loaner until you finalize the deal for the new one. If you can't find one you like in the 50K mileage range, then buy one with higher mileage and make another stipulation of the settlement that the dealer covers a year or two of extended warranty coverage (to make up for the mileage difference).

It seems clear that the cost and logistical challenges of replacing the engine mean that you should wave goodbye to your car (which is sad and frustrating, I know). But realistically, an engine swap would make me more nervous than just biting the bullet and buying a new 4.8is.

Incidentally, I'm an attorney. Although I don't practice in WA, I'm happy to provide you with a "second opinion" of sorts, and I can give you an idea of what you may be in for if you choose to go the litigation route (hint: a long wait, added frustration and delay, and ultimately probably less satisfaction than you were hoping for).

Best advice yet. Spoken from a law tactition. Have them give you as much as you can get and buy a new car.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Sweep_the_Leg

I would counter their $23K offer with $29K, plus they cover any shipping costs for an equivalent replacement 4.8is, plus they continue to let you use a loaner until you finalize the deal for the new one. If you can't find one you like in the 50K mileage range, then buy one with higher mileage and make another stipulation of the settlement that the dealer covers a year or two of extended warranty coverage (to make up for the mileage difference).

It seems clear that the cost and logistical challenges of replacing the engine mean that you should wave goodbye to your car (which is sad and frustrating, I know). But realistically, an engine swap would make me more nervous than just biting the bullet and buying a new 4.8is.

Also, ask that you be allowed to remove any mods from your car that you want to keep.

You may not get $29k, but you should be able to get enough to buy a comparable vehicle.

[upallnight]

If they over filled the engine with oil like they said they did, they would have hydro locked the engine. Remember back in high school physics (are kids still require to take H.S. Physics?) that liquid can not be compressed, so if enough oil got into the cylinders and the valves are closed the oil has no where to go and you can't compress a liquid so something has to give.

They could have removed the spark plugs and drain the oil from the cylinders and sump. And if they were lucky they might had dodge a bullet and the engine will still run.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by upallnight

If they over filled the engine with oil like they said they did, they would have hydro locked the engine. Remember back in high school physics (are kids still require to take H.S. Physics?) that liquid can not be compressed, so if enough oil got into the cylinders and the valves are closed the oil has no where to go and you can't compress a liquid so something has to give.

They could have removed the spark plugs and drain the oil from the cylinders and sump. And if they were lucky they might had dodge a bullet and the engine will still run.

An engine is hydro locked when oil is ingested through the intake into the combustion chamber, not when too much oil is in the sump.

Overfilling causes the crankshaft to whip up the oil and incorporate air bubbles. Air doesn't lubricate. Engine seizes.

[upallnight]

Originally Posted by JCL

An engine is hydro locked when oil is ingested through the intake into the combustion chamber, not when too much oil is in the sump.

Overfilling causes the crankshaft to whip up the oil and incorporate air bubbles. Air doesn't lubricate. Engine seizes.

Air doesn't lubricate, but the pickup for the oil pump is normally at the bottom of the sump and if I recall from my H.S. physics air is lighter then oil so it will be at the top of the sump. I kinda doubt if they had the engine running for that great of a time period that the engine would have seize due to air in the oil.

Back in my teen days my brother and I drove a Opel with the oil light on for 10 miles before it finally seized. And prior to the engine seizing you would have heard all the rods knocking. If the tech didn't hear all the rods knocking prior to the engine seizing than that is negligence on the tech's part.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by upallnight

Air doesn't lubricate, but the pickup for the oil pump is normally at the bottom of the sump and if I recall from my H.S. physics air is lighter then oil so it will be at the top of the sump. I kinda doubt if they had the engine running for that great of a time period that the engine would have seize due to air in the oil.

The crankshaft works exactly the same as the blade in your kitchen blender, if the oil level is high enough for the counterweights to contact the oil surface. When you incorporate air into the oil by whipping it, the air is entrapped. The oil turns foamy, sort of like a malted milk beverage. The weight of the air is irrelevant.

The pump picks up this blended mixture, and the oil/air misture can no longer perform its lubrication task, since a high percentage of it is air bubbles. Cranks and rod bearings are the first to go.

Highschool autoshop (it ran right after Physics 12).

[Bnagy4.8]

Update: After a long conversation with the insurance company yet again, the insurance company is going back to the board to see what they can do. At the same time I have involved my insurance company to prevent them from diminishing my cars value. Being that this car is owned my bank they will not allow my vehicle to receive a rebuilt, reconstructed, branded, totaled title.

I got in touch again with my legal advisor/attorney and they said that "if" they put used engine into my vehicle (which they have the right to do) and my value of the car is compromised (which it will) then they are required to pay me for the loss in value based off of a car appraisers opinion. They also suggested that we contact my insurance to get them in the loop on the issue so they can "lean" on the insurance company for BMW.

I will keep this thread updated on any progress.

[Thunder22]

Originally Posted by Bnagy4.8

Update: After a long conversation with the insurance company yet again, the insurance company is going back to the board to see what they can do. At the same time I have involved my insurance company to prevent them from diminishing my cars value. Being that this car is owned my bank they will not allow my vehicle to receive a rebuilt, reconstructed, branded, totaled title.

I got in touch again with my legal advisor/attorney and they said that "if" they put used engine into my vehicle (which they have the right to do) and my value of the car is compromised (which it will) then they are required to pay me for the loss in value based off of a car appraisers opinion. They also suggested that we contact my insurance to get them in the loop on the issue so they can "lean" on the insurance company for BMW.

I will keep this thread updated on any progress.

I know that I'm late to this, but yes, get your insurance company involved asap, that's what you pay them for, and they will use their lawyers to fight with the dealer and the dealers insurance company so that you're not paying your own attorney (assuming he's not giving you advice pro bono).

In fact, you can probably work out a deal with your insurance company, get paid, and they'll go after the other company for you.

[Bnagy4.8]

Update: So today I was contacted by the last person I thought would ever contact me, BMW of North America, who Apparently were/are following this thread. After they read the posts here on Xoutpost they contacted BMW Northwest and spoke with the general manager and the service department manager to get all the details. When I returned their call he was fully aware of my situation and all of the efforts going forth to make this right for me. I must say that receiving a call from them was the last thing I expected to happen. It is really comforting to know that they are pulling all the strings they can from a business stand point to make sure I am satisfied. I will say I feel bad for the guy on the other end of the phone listening to me vent my frustrations but I am sure he hears them all the time.

I hope that they are truly in my corner and not just trying to save face.

For all those who thought that BMW of USA has nothing to do with the independent dealers, they sure do. They provided me their corporate number to contact if any more issues come up or concerns I may have.

At this point, much relieved, but I am not turning my back yet.

[BigBlack48is]

Originally Posted by Bnagy4.8

Update: So today I was contacted by the last person I thought would ever contact me, BMW of North America, who Apparently were/are following this thread. After they read the posts here on Xoutpost they contacted BMW Northwest and spoke with the general manager and the service department manager to get all the details. When I returned their call he was fully aware of my situation and all of the efforts going forth to make this right for me. I must say that receiving a call from them was the last thing I expected to happen. It is really comforting to know that they are pulling all the strings they can from a business stand point to make sure I am satisfied. I will say I feel bad for the guy on the other end of the phone listening to me vent my frustrations but I am sure he hears them all the time.

I hope that they are truly in my corner and not just trying to save face.

For all those who thought that BMW of USA has nothing to do with the independent dealers, they sure do. They provided me their corporate number to contact if any more issues come up or concerns I may have.

At this point, much relieved, but I am not turning my back yet.

All I can say is... I *heart* Xoutpost!!!