ohhh no.....Passenger side head destroyed...Chunk of head, roller and oil on ground

[X5Ghost]

TerminatorX5, you are absolutely 100% correct!

If there is one thing I learned thru my several BMW ownership experiences, the more I drive BMW's the more in love and addicted I become. But I will never ever own another BMW again unless it is under warranty. Especially after my X5 transmission blowing up last year after only 400 miles/30 days of ownership of a car that was well mainated with records, been CPO'd it's entire life, and a dead transimssion at 96k miles. $7k later (after all the discounts), it was a tough pill to swallow and a good reminder why warranty is very important!

Can't argue with your logic either!

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by TerminatorX5

being on this forum for a few years, and being on the other forums even longer (since the E34 days), I always knew that the BMW has issues with things, like Alusil/Nikasil issues, if anyone remembers, like skewed seatbacks on the older beemers, missing pixels, CCV issues with the blue smoke, the valve guides... however, some issues were addressed by the BMW NA/BMW AG, some were addressed by the enthusiast base, and most things were repairable... even the chain guide nightmare...
so, those things did not phase off me off the marque, things happen, some brands are better, some are worse than the others...


however, a sudden death of an engine, without any warning - that is very upsetting... at least, what i would hope to hear, that the BMW NA would send out a COMPETENT factory engineer to come out and INVESTIGATE the reason for such an epic, catastrophic failure - such a sudden death can deter many potential buyer, both new to the marque, and old veterans...
a failure of something that was neglected, abused or otherwise leading to the failure - it is understandable.

a failure of a pampered car - it is so damn serious that we all should worry about this, and the reason for the failure should be investigated.

Lex, try to escalate the issue, and even seek some media attention - there is another thread here with Bnagy, where a dealer killed his engine... that case is very bad, but we all know what happened there.

in your case - it is the UNKNOWN factor that scares the ownership base...

If the COMPETENT engineer from BMW NA or BMW AG determines the cause of the failure, we all need to know what it was, so it can be mitigated.

if we all start "dumping" our cars on the market, it will drop their value, it will drop the resale value of the new cars, and the word of mouth will damage the reputation of the brand.

I do not know if we can start a petition to the BMW NA, but i know for a fact, that the membership base of the xOutpost is in tens of thousands registered members, and thousands upon thousands of people who troll, this forum is visited by people from other series and even other marques... I sure hope that the BMW corporate is reading these threads, these posts and somebody high enough on the ladder can make an executive decision in reference to your problem...

we can't just let an unknown cancer kill an engine, and just walk away from it...

what do other members think?

Term, IIRC wasn't BMW NA made aware of Bnagys thread and it somewhat lit a fire under their ass? Hopefully Lex can get them to at least start dialogue with him.

[Lexicon740iL]

Originally Posted by TerminatorX5

being on this forum for a few years, and being on the other forums even longer (since the E34 days), I always knew that the BMW has issues with things, like Alusil/Nikasil issues, if anyone remembers, like skewed seatbacks on the older beemers, missing pixels, CCV issues with the blue smoke, the valve guides... however, some issues were addressed by the BMW NA/BMW AG, some were addressed by the enthusiast base, and most things were repairable... even the chain guide nightmare...
so, those things did not phase off me off the marque, things happen, some brands are better, some are worse than the others...


however, a sudden death of an engine, without any warning - that is very upsetting... at least, what i would hope to hear, that the BMW NA would send out a COMPETENT factory engineer to come out and INVESTIGATE the reason for such an epic, catastrophic failure - such a sudden death can deter many potential buyer, both new to the marque, and old veterans...
a failure of something that was neglected, abused or otherwise leading to the failure - it is understandable.

a failure of a pampered car - it is so damn serious that we all should worry about this, and the reason for the failure should be investigated.

Lex, try to escalate the issue, and even seek some media attention - there is another thread here with Bnagy, where a dealer killed his engine... that case is very bad, but we all know what happened there.

in your case - it is the UNKNOWN factor that scares the ownership base...

If the COMPETENT engineer from BMW NA or BMW AG determines the cause of the failure, we all need to know what it was, so it can be mitigated.

if we all start "dumping" our cars on the market, it will drop their value, it will drop the resale value of the new cars, and the word of mouth will damage the reputation of the brand.

I do not know if we can start a petition to the BMW NA, but i know for a fact, that the membership base of the xOutpost is in tens of thousands registered members, and thousands upon thousands of people who troll, this forum is visited by people from other series and even other marques... I sure hope that the BMW corporate is reading these threads, these posts and somebody high enough on the ladder can make an executive decision in reference to your problem...

we can't just let an unknown cancer kill an engine, and just walk away from it...

what do other members think?

I agree with your insightful assessment Term.

I will escalate with BMWNA and reference all material I can find regarding issues with other V8 N62's with head failure. I noticed a few posts while scouring the interwebs on the N62 head bolts just shearing off on 7's and 5'ers. and the E65 failures J. posted.

It's worth a try and if it assists other owners that's why I join forums in the first place to help others and get help.

Do you think this will require me to tow it to the dealer from my friends shop like mentioned previously if perusing a BMWNA claim? I suppose so.

I am a bit apprehensive to have it towed 80 miles and diagnosed and then be stuck with those fees 500+ if they end up not offering me any goodwill. I guess nothing ventured nothing gained right....It might get me thousands off the repair work.

I did see something on a class action lawsuit being formed against BMW if I'm not mistaken. I guess I'll be making some calls this week

[Lexicon740iL]

Feel free to post any links on N62 V8 head failure guys....

Hopefully someone at BMW will read this thread and be reminded this is not looking like it an isolated incident.

[TerminatorX5]

like any manufacturer of a wearable items (cars are wearable), BMW is relying on returning customers as well as new customers... They are fortunate to have a customer base that unites into clubs (BMW CCA), and maintains active online presense, such as this forum, such as e46fanatics, rubmw.ru, and many many others... people who don't have a BMW want to buy one, people who have a BMW want buy another one... this is how brands make their names...

we all remember the Jaguars of the 80-s and 90-s, that were plagued with electrical problems, almost killed their sales in the US... they have turned around, did not completely recover, but still in the US market... FIAT is trying to come back... Alpha Romeo is gone from one of the most lucrative markets, and the french brands are not even on the radar...

BMW worked really hard to build its reputation, and spoiling it over an engine that they have in their warehouses, that costs less than the advertizing budget to bring in a new customer... that is ridiculous... When i was working at AT&T, the saying was that AT&T spends about $300 per each new customer to bring into the folds of the company, so it was cheaper for us to retain a customer that was already an AT&T customer than to bring in a new one...

imagine, BMW spends millions on the ads in order to bring in new customers... money spent for a new engine is nothing, but the impact and ripple effect on the forums - immeasurable... People are still talking about the goodwill replacements that BMW did, and even though i havenot heard any recent stories, those legends surrounding the mark, they make it stronger...

BMW was the inventing force behind the backstory of The HIRE - when a dude actually won a Z4 (i think it was Z4) just for watchng the online series and uncovering a gameplot... that still has folks talking about it...

my point is, lets hope that the BMW NA gets on it... and we are not asking for freebies, most of us support the brand by buying the parts and services, some manage to buy brand new cars, i just recently had a lease with BMW FS... what we want is a reciprocal gesture of loyalty back to us... If you note, i had chain guides fail on my 4.6iS, but i never asked for any help from BMW NA, as i should have caught the failure before it was catastrophic... in Lex situation, it is different - we do not know what was the cause, and that is scary!!!

[Lexicon740iL]

Originally Posted by Roadkill

Term, IIRC wasn't BMW NA made aware of Bnagys thread and it somewhat lit a fire under their ass? Hopefully Lex can get them to at least start dialogue with him.

What happend with Bnagys issue? Did BMWNA help him out in the end.


I mean I know it's hit and miss getting coverage from BMWNA on dead pixels on an E38 MID... Is coverage of more extensive failure common?

[epdarks]

Lex, sorry to hear it. Been thinking about local options for you. I spoke with the guys over at DJ Auto on University, they have rebuilt M/N62 motors in the past. Their head tech has been doing BMWs for 17.5 years.

There is also a guy on this forum that runs a BMW parts biz up north a ways. Or, Matt down at Bavarian Motorhaus(?) in Elko. I'm thinking a used head or worse case used 4.4 motor would be an option.

Hugely tragic occurrence, but I'm thinking the costs to repair could be mitigated if you can source used parts locally.

If you ever want to compare notes, call/text me. 952 334 22ninetynine.

Dan

[J.Belknap]

SI B 11 02 05
Engine January 2006
Technical Service

This Service Information bulletin supersedes S.I. B11 02 05 dated May 2005.

designates changes to this revision

SUBJECT
N62 Engine - Rough Idle, Misfire Faults after Cold Start


MODEL
E53 (X5 4.4 i/4.8is); E60, E63/64, E65/66 with N62 from 06/04 up to 02/05 production


SITUATION
Customer may complain of erratic engine idle speed lasting for approximately 20 seconds after a cold start. Check Engine Soon light may be illuminated and misfire faults for various cylinders (e.g. FC 2742, 2743, 2744, 2745, 2746, 2748, 2749, 274E) may be stored in the DME.

CAUSE
Incorrect tolerances and geometry of Valvetronic intermediate levers are causing uneven cylinder filling during the transitional cold start period (60 seconds after the engine has been started) when the Valvetronic system is switching from the initial 6 mm to a minimum 0.3/0.8 mm valve lift.

CORRECTION
On a customer complaint basis, and after performing diagnostic procedure described below, replace the Valvetronic intermediate levers.

PROCEDURE

Perform basic engine diagnosis (compression, ignition, fuel pressure, etc) to rule out other potential causes.

Allow the engine to cool down.

Connect GT1/DIS loaded with CD 44.0, or higher, to a cold vehicle (coolant temperature below 30 deg C) and from the Function Selection select: "Service Functions", "Drive", "Engine management ME9", "Test runs" and then "Tolerance test, intermediate lever".

Start the engine and follow-up the test plan.

Observe rough running values when idle speed stabilizes. If values are in excess of +/- 2.5 accompanied with noticeable engine vibration (and sometimes Check Engine Soon flashing), then remove valve covers on both banks.

Look for the intermediate lever production date (stamped on the lever, next to the smaller roller contacting the eccentric shaft).

If the production date is in the range between "04 180" and "04 324" (e.g. day 324 of the year 2004), then the whole set of intermediate levers (16) has to be replaced. The same classification of levers must be used when ordering the intermediate levers (classification number is stamped below production date). There are 5 classifications of levers used in the N62 engine.

Note: In an individual cylinder head, all levers must have the same classification, but two different classification of intermediate levers may be used in one engine (e.g. bank 1: classification 2, bank 2: classification 3).

Important: The lower production range of the affected intermediate levers is only an approximation. It is possible that levers produced prior to "04 180" (but not earlier then "03 363") may have certain deviations in tolerances.

For Valvetronic intermediate lever replacement procedure, refer to RA 11 37 012 (bank 1) and RA 11 37 014 (bank 2), found in BMW TIS.

IMPORTANT:

Improved intermediate levers are currently available from our Parts Department.

In the event of a reproducible customer complaint proceed with the diagnostic and repair procedure. There is no need to contact Technical Hotline.

PARTS INFORMATION
Part Number Description Quantity

11 37 7 516 895 Intermediate levers class 1 Maximum 16
11 37 7 514 012 Intermediate levers class 2 Maximum 16
11 37 7 514 013 Intermediate levers class 3 Maximum 16
11 37 7 514 014 Intermediate levers class 4 Maximum 16
11 37 7 514 015 Intermediate levers class 5 Maximum 16
11 12 7 513 194 Valve cover gasket bank 1 1
11 12 7 513 195 Valve cover gasket bank 2 1
11 31 7 507 432 Tensioner sealing ring 2
07 11 9 903 596 Valvetronic motor spacer ring 2
11 14 7 506 424 Timing chain cover, u-shape metal gasket, bank 1 1
11 14 7 506 425 Timing chain cover, u-shape metal gasket, bank 2 1
11 36 7 513 222 Vanos solenoid O-ring 4
11 36 7 546 379 Vanos solenoid O-ring 4
11 36 7 501 423 Vanos unit bolts 4
12 14 1 748 398 Cam sensor o-rings 4
11 12 7 518 420 Eccentric shaft sensor o-ring 2

NOTE:

It is not necessary to replace spark plugs tubes during a course of this repair.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

Defect Code
11 37 91 42 00


Labor Operation:
Labor Allowance:


Main work:
00 55 453
93 FRU ? E53 X5 4.4i/4.8is

91 FRU ? E65/66

102 FRU ? E60, E63/64

+Associated work:
00 55 793
91 FRU ? E53 X5 4.4i/4.8is

90 FRU ? E65/66

100 FRU ? E60, E63/64

Note: The following explanations will spell out the correct use of the work times.

Main Work:
Use this labor operation number when the only repair performed is the listed warranty repair.

OR

+Associated Work:
Use this labor operation number when other repairs or services are performed along with the listed warranty repair.
Under no circumstances should both labor operation numbers be claimed. Attempts to claim both times will result in an unnecessary delay in claim processing and payment.

[J.Belknap]

I know you have an '06. BUT, keep that in mind. ^

I think in my reading that those N62 motors may have issues with the lifters bleeding down. In either case, that could send roller drag levers flying.

[Lexicon740iL]

Originally Posted by epdarks

Lex, sorry to hear it. Been thinking about local options for you. I spoke with the guys over at DJ Auto on University, they have rebuilt M/N62 motors in the past. Their head tech has been doing BMWs for 17.5 years.

There is also a guy on this forum that runs a BMW parts biz up north a ways. Or, Matt down at Bavarian Motorhaus(?) in Elko. I'm thinking a used head or worse case used 4.4 motor would be an option.

Hugely tragic occurrence, but I'm thinking the costs to repair could be mitigated if you can source used parts locally.

If you ever want to compare notes, call/text me. 952 334 22ninetynine.

Dan

Thanks for the ref's Dan!

My friend just had his 2002 over to DJ's after he heard great things. They did tons of work and fixed 4 separate issues for under 4 bills. I was amazed. Darwin is the guy to see there. He told me there was a Alpina B7 on the lift when he picked up his ride that was nice to hear.

Pams up in St. Cloud has a 06 4.4 W/ 102K for 3700.00
My friend knows the Euro guy who pulls BMW parts up there and says his work is clean and he would trust a block from him.

I've never heard of that place in Elko. I'll check it out.

I'll def. lock in your number and pick your brain in the very near future. Thanks for the help man.

-Alex