Brake pads advice for 2003 3.0I

[Sarek]

I am going to go out on a limb and say that the one (and usually the only) complaint about bmw original pads is dust. Some people don't like the price or that the brakes don't last long enough. I am sure that the aftermarket is capable of making brakes that are acceptable on BMW's. Do they? Its a pretty expensive gamble if they warp or glaze over because the pad compound is too hard. I would get good OEM rotors like textar or brembo to save some money, but get the original bmw pads and just clean your wheels. Why do you think that bmw doesn't address the dust issue. People complain all the time. I guess the team of engineers that design the brake systems need some help from the "testing" people at Bavarian autosport.

Again...I am not saying that the cool carbon or other brands are not OK. Just skeptical I guess. Bmw is pretty proud of their brakes and suspension.. the brakes perform extremely well with all driving styles and situations. Stop on a dime. And don't vibrate or make noise from my experience.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Sarek

I am going to go out on a limb and say that the one (and usually the only) complaint about bmw original pads is dust. Some people don't like the price or that the brakes don't last long enough. I am sure that the aftermarket is capable of making brakes that are acceptable on BMW's. Do they? Its a pretty expensive gamble if they warp or glaze over because the pad compound is too hard. I would get good OEM rotors like textar or brembo to save some money, but get the original bmw pads and just clean your wheels. Why do you think that bmw doesn't address the dust issue. People complain all the time. I guess the team of engineers that design the brake systems need some help from the "testing" people at Bavarian autosport.

Again...I am not saying that the cool carbon or other brands are not OK. Just skeptical I guess. Bmw is pretty proud of their brakes and suspension.. the brakes perform extremely well with all driving styles and situations. Stop on a dime. And don't vibrate or make noise from my experience.

I think the OE pads work very well, apart from the dust. But the dust isn't an accident, it is intentional. It is a result of using carbon black as a filler material. That is used as a filler material because it helps keep the pads quiet (and has reasonable thermal properties). BMW (and other manufacturers) used that material to keep warranty costs down, IMO. Customer complaints about noise cost them money. Customer complaints about dust are ignored and in fact some even consider it a badge of honour (meaning that BMW marketing has worked). But BMW has now changed their pad composition. A family member's X1 has the new pad composition, no visible dust.

What I wouldn't do is use aftermarket rotors. I found the OE rotors performed better, and so went back. It is too easy to make something generic, round, (and sometimes flat) that doesn't have the same cooling fin design.

[BIMMER_BLUEBLOOD]

Jurid is the name of the company that produces pad for BMW if im not mistaken.. to save money, buy directly from Jurid. they are alot cheaper for the same product.

[TiAgX5]

Originally Posted by Sarek

I am going to go out on a limb and say that the one (and usually the only) complaint about bmw original pads is dust. Some people don't like the price or that the brakes don't last long enough...............I guess the team of engineers that design the brake systems need some help from the "testing" people at Bavarian autosport.......

Another issue with the OE pads is brake fade. High temps combined with agressive brake use/towing/light track use ALWAYS shows that the OE pads were produces with quiet operation as a top priority. The semi-metallic compound also wears the rotors when pushed to the limit.
This is not an issue for BMW, because very few owners push their vehicles to that point.

Price is not an isuue here (Cool Carbon pads cost about $100 more then OE per axle).


BMW is designing pads to keep warranty repairs to a minimum (owners complaining of brake noise means no-charge replacement of rotors/pads). BMW also wants an "abrasive" compound to "recondition/clean" the rotors of stock vehicles that sit on dealer lots for weeks/months prior to sale, or owners who drive their BMW infrequently.

Most owners have NO need for an abrasive compound that cleans/resurfaces the rotors because of infrequent use, if my X sits for a few weeks it's in a temp controlled garage.

The BavAuto info (and aftermarket pad manufacturers) don't take into consideration manufacturer "no-charge" brake repair, cars that sit for weeks unused or people who only use their BMWs to drop the kids at school, go to work and run to the store.

What IS taken into consideration by BavAuto, the non-OE performance pad manufacturers and the owners is sport style driving fade resistance that exceeds OE pads, reduced rotor wear and linear response hot and cold.

One hot day track session in a BMW with OE pads shows BMW brake designers had NO regard for linear response and fade resistance at high temps.

[racingbmwm3]

I've had bad experience with OEM Brembo rotors. Is Textar the OE? I thought they just made pads for some reason. I've had good luck with ATE rotors. OE is the best though.

As far as warping, I make a conscientious effort to not sit in one place with the brakes locked after exiting a freeway (at a light) or other similar situation where the brake pads have just been heated up. Also, proper bedding/conditioning, depending on pad material, is important. All stock = light-moderate braking for first few stops and no hard braking for a day or two. Racing pads or other hard ceramics typically have specific bedding instructions. Sometimes what feels like warped discs is just irregular pad deposits on the rotor.

Jurid, Textar, and Pagid make the OE pads depending on the model.

Originally Posted by TiAgX5

Another issue with the OE pads is brake fade. High temps combined with agressive brake use/towing/light track use ALWAYS shows that the OE pads were produces with quiet operation as a top priority.
.....
One hot day track session in a BMW with OE pads shows BMW brake designers had NO regard for linear response and fade resistance at high temps.

This includes //M cars. Excellent braking from high speed for a few laps, but that's about it. Haven't driven or ridden in a new //M with full carbon brakes, those are probably the first ones to have proper track rated brakes though.

[bcredliner]

I have been using EBC red stuff pads for a few years. VERY little dust. They are an improvement from OE pads and currently I plan to purchase the same pads in the future. I am not concerned about brake fade or tracking performance as I am never in a situation where that is a concern. My goal was as little dust as possible, pads that that don't grab so easily and some amount of improved stoping distance. Only 'measurement' I have is how often I can hear the ABS system in a panic stop.

Have no perspective on other pads or rotor combinations as have not tried them.

[SilverFalcon5]

I replaced pads/rotors all the way around this past weekend. I went with Centric Posi-quiet ceramic pads and Meyle Platinum rotors. Replaced all the hardware, slide bushings and caliper bolts. So far I am pleased with performance, still in the break in/bedding mileage. Have used the Centric brand before and had no complaints on them. this is the first time with Meyle brand.

The pads that came off were Textar and about a week after cleaning the wheels they were black and dingy. I have enough other projects on my X besides cleaning wheels every weekend so I chose ceramic.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by JCL

I think the OE pads work very well, apart from the dust. But the dust isn't an accident, it is intentional. It is a result of using carbon black as a filler material. That is used as a filler material because it helps keep the pads quiet (and has reasonable thermal properties). BMW (and other manufacturers) used that material to keep warranty costs down, IMO. Customer complaints about noise cost them money. Customer complaints about dust are ignored and in fact some even consider it a badge of honour (meaning that BMW marketing has worked). But BMW has now changed their pad composition. A family member's X1 has the new pad composition, no visible dust.

What I wouldn't do is use aftermarket rotors. I found the OE rotors performed better, and so went back. It is too easy to make something generic, round, (and sometimes flat) that doesn't have the same cooling fin design.

Spot on as usual. All brake pads are designed to specific requirements. BMW's requirements (needs) aren't the same as mine for brake pads.

Using Sarek's logic regarding comparing the engineers at BMW to other people's opinions further throughout the vehicle would indicate, for example, that a full Ohlins (or Motion Control, JRZ, etc.) strut/shock/suspension on an M3 is inferior to the stock M3 suspension because they don't have the same compression and rebound curves. Pure hogwash.

Sarek's logic is correct that you *could* choose an inferior product and make things worse. I have made things worse (in my zeal to get rid of brake dust) with my choice of Akebono Euro ceramic pads front/rear. Agree with TiAgX5 on the characteristics of the Akebono's.

Where the logic fails is that it doesn't account for the fact that you could choose a better product that meets your requirements, not BMWs. Forums like this allow us to gain knowledge on from other people's experiences with other than OE components.

As far as rotors, I like PFC direct drive rotors, but they don't make them for our X5's. They also don't make pads for the F&R of my 2005 4.4i. It makes me sad.

Different strokes for different folks. Kind of like the guy doing the off-road build. He's not using stock BMW parts.

[TiAgX5]

Originally Posted by admranger

....I have made things worse (in my zeal to get rid of brake dust) with my choice of Akebono Euro ceramic pads front/rear. Agree with TiAgX5 on the characteristics of the Akebono's......

The Ake Euro Ceramics are great if you're looking for LOW dust, don't track/drive hard and can live with some noise. My set went in the trash after the first track session with the E46 (ended up spending the track day over/under modulating my braking and backing up my brake points due to pad inconsistancy).

[Riggodeaux]

TiAgX5, you and others have talked me out of the Akebonos should I take mine to Road Atlanta in the Fall. I'm a 'gentle' user of brakes, especially in my vehicles with stick shifts, but I will upgrade if I take it on the track [and maybe save my Akebonos to reinstall after Road Atlanta .....]