Dropped a part in worst possible place in engine - ideas?

[Multibeemer]

As I was on the home stretch of my valve cover and timing chain cover gasket replacement project on my 03 4.4i, disaster struck. After placing the passenger side timing cover in place, I realized I had to insert one of the bolts that holds it to the head before putting the cover in place, so as I was removing it, the chain tensioner came loose, and I'm 99% sure it fell down inside the lower timing chain cover. I've literally spent hours looking everywhere outside the lower cover, but can't find it. It made a sound consistent with a metal part falling inside a hollow metal cavity, so I'm pretty sure it's sitting at the bottom of the upper oil pan.

So, before I go to the insane amount of work (and about $200 worth of special tools I'd only use once) involved with pulling off the lower cover, I want to explore all other options.

1. Any tips for trying to fish the part out of there? I've spent a lot of "quality time" with my telescoping magnet, with no luck. A co-worker lent me his boroscope, but even with that nice instrument, it's hard to make out anything in there. I'm going to next try taping a flexible tube to my shop vac's nozzle to see if I can retrieve it that way.

2. If I have to end up removing the front cover, do I absolutely have to buy a crank holder tool to remove the crank pulley bolt (aka the "Jesus bolt")? Wouldn't having someone mash down on the brakes with the transmission in reverse while I turn the bolt using a long extension pipe do the trick? I'm guessing not, otherwise everybody doing this job would do it that way, but I have to ask.

3. I haven't found any really good pictures of what the area where the tensioner piece mostly likely fell, so I'm wondering if there's any chance I could just leave it there and buy a new one. Again, I doubt it, as the risk of it coming loose and finding its way into the chain mechanism is probably too large to take, but again, I'm trying to exhaust all options before tearing the entire front of my engine apart.

I'm guessing I'm the only person in the history of the world who's ever done this, but any suggestions from anyone with experience working on this part of the engine would be very welcome.

[Doru]

I lost a metal part on my N62 engine in the same spot you lost the chain tensioner (upper oil pan). It took me forever to fish it out, and you are right, very difficult to see, etc. I believe I tried for a few futile hours before finally fishing it out.
In my case, just before I almost gave up, and had the same expen$ive thoughts, I went in for a final sweep, and this time, I went very slowly on top of the lower part of the chain, and right when I touched the crank, I felt and heard the "click". It was lodged between the crank and chain.
So, if you haven't tried that spot, I encourage you to do so, because right when I was close to give up, just like you, I was sweeping the whole upper oil pan, EXCEPT where the chain goes around the crank...and there it was.
It's probably the only place you haven't probed.

GL

[Multibeemer]

Doru,

Thanks very much for the reply - I feel (a little...) better that I'm not the only person in history to have dropped this part down the lower timing chain cover. I'll look carefully where's you're describing. I tried using the boroscope last night, but it was difficult to see anything very clearly. But it was easy to snake the fiber optic cable all the way down to the bottom of the top oil pan, so I'm next going to try taping a vinyl hose to my shop vac's nozzle to see if I can retrieve it that way.

Also, I learned that putting the car in gear and having someone press on the brakes while I turn the bolt won't work, because there isn't a direct, mechanical connection between the transmission and the rear axle with an automatic transmission.

Another thought I have is that I noticed that there is a several-inch gap between the front of the lower timing chain cover and the flange that the crank bolt is tightened against. So, wouldn't it be possible to remove the bolts holding the timing chain cover in place (realizing that this still requires removal of the belts, alternator, water pump, power steering pump, and harmonic balancer), and pull the cover back until it knocks against the flange? This would at least give me several inches of space to look for the part. But even if this is possible, the next question would be whether I could change the lower timing belt cover gasket without completely removing the cover. I wouldn't want to put the cover back with the original gasket, because that's just asking for a leak in the worst possible spot on this engine.

[garrett.fell]

The tube on a shopvac saved me this March when I was doing the valve cover and front timing cover gaskets on my N62!

The valve cover was very stuck to the head, so I inserted my harborfreight plastic prying tool in there and broke the end off of course.

I spent some time looking for the "lost piece" and finally realized it had fallen down the oil-return tubes from the heads

It was wedged deep in there and attempts to drag it out with a thin wire or screwdriver were futile. I ended up having the shopvac and tube epiphany and it worked like a charm.


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[Doru]

I had both upper timing covers off when I lost that metal part.
I haven't removed the lower timing cover, so I can't comment on that.
You could try (after removing belt, fan, etc) to turn the crank by hand (very slow!!!), and if it doesn't turn one way, then you know it's lodged between the chain & crank. But you incur the risk of it falling further down, if it's indeed lodged in there, if you move the chain in the opposite direction (the chain goes down at an angle, and is wide enough to keep a small part wedged between it and the crank).
The space is very tight, and I couldn't work any light in there.
The reason I was lucky, was because I "swept" probably the whole bottom of the upper oil pan without any luck. The only possible place left was... the chain (or down one of the holes to the lower oil pan).

GL

[Multibeemer]

Doru,

What kind of tool did you use to retrieve your part? I've tried a telescoping magnet, with no luck. Do you think a flexible magnet would work better? I also tried the shop vac method, but my shop belongs in the scrap heap - it barely produces any suction, so I'll either have to borrow a neighbor's, or buy a new one (which I need anyway). And I tried a boroscope, but I can't see anything useful with it - too much reflected glare off the metal parts, it seems.

I also tried turning the engine (clockwise), and it rotates without any problem, so the piece doesn't seem to be wedged between the chain and the crank, or at least not tightly enough to impede the movement of the crank.

If I decide to bite the bullet and remove the lower timing chain cover, is there anyone who would be interested in buying the crank pulley securing bar when I'm done with it? It's $70 at Pelican Parts, so I'd sell it for $50 when I'm done with it. Thanks.

[J.Belknap]

Man that stinks. BUT... if you havent done your guides yet, maybe its a sign. Either way good luck.

[Multibeemer]

Originally Posted by Doru

I had both upper timing covers off when I lost that metal part.
I haven't removed the lower timing cover, so I can't comment on that.
You could try (after removing belt, fan, etc) to turn the crank by hand (very slow!!!), and if it doesn't turn one way, then you know it's lodged between the chain & crank. But you incur the risk of it falling further down, if it's indeed lodged in there, if you move the chain in the opposite direction (the chain goes down at an angle, and is wide enough to keep a small part wedged between it and the crank).
The space is very tight, and I couldn't work any light in there.
The reason I was lucky, was because I "swept" probably the whole bottom of the upper oil pan without any luck. The only possible place left was... the chain (or down one of the holes to the lower oil pan).

GL

Doru,

I have a question for you. Since the piece that fell into my engine ispart of the chain tensioner, do you think there's much risk of the chain skipping a sprocket on its gear as a result of turning the engine, given the slack on the passenger side of the chain? I turned it VERY slowly as you recommended, and watched the chain carefully as I was turning it, and I'm pretty sure it didn't jump a tooth, but someone on an E39 forum who has had a lot of experience with timing the cams on an M62 feels that the risk is significant enough to warrant having to re-time the cams, which is a nightmare I don't want to get into if at all possible, especially since I've learned that I can probably retrieve my part by simply removing the lower oil pan. So, the last thing on earth I want to do is spend upwards of $200 in tools and parts to remove the lower timing chain cover to confirm that my chain didn't skip a tooth. What would you do if you were in my situation? Thanks.

[Doru]

Originally Posted by Multibeemer

Doru,

I have a question for you. Since the piece that fell into my engine ispart of the chain tensioner, do you think there's much risk of the chain skipping a sprocket on its gear as a result of turning the engine, given the slack on the passenger side of the chain? I turned it VERY slowly as you recommended, and watched the chain carefully as I was turning it, and I'm pretty sure it didn't jump a tooth, but someone on an E39 forum who has had a lot of experience with timing the cams on an M62 feels that the risk is significant enough to warrant having to re-time the cams, which is a nightmare I don't want to get into if at all possible, especially since I've learned that I can probably retrieve my part by simply removing the lower oil pan. So, the last thing on earth I want to do is spend upwards of $200 in tools and parts to remove the lower timing chain cover to confirm that my chain didn't skip a tooth. What would you do if you were in my situation? Thanks.

If you don't find the tensioner with a magnet in the upper oil pan, then either:
a.) It dropped in the lower pan, and that is easy to tackle (the worst part is to take the lower re-inforcement shield off)
b.) It's still in there, but it's made out of non-mag metal?

I don't think the cams are out of timing. For that, the chain has to skip a sprocket tooth, and you would notice that right away. Not impossible, but there are 2 chains - one on the left side, one on the right side, so one chain is still in tension, and should keep everything tight.(relative). That was one reason I told you to go slow. One side of the chain is "sloppy", but you don't want it to slap & skip (the "sloppy" part of the chain has one side tensioned, and one with slop when the tensioner is removed). if skipping, normally you should hear & feel it right away. If it was smooth, I wouldn't worry, but again, you're your own judge.

Try to find out if it's magnetic (you could remove the other side tensioner and test - but don't let this one fall in there...), and if it is, then it should be in the lower oil pan. The problem would be both sides of the chain with slop...very, very careful.

GL

[BigBlack48is]

I have a small magnet that I drilled a hole through and have some heavy fishing line tied off on it for just such an occasion! I used a very strong magnet from a scrapped computer hard drive.

Hope you have some good luck fishing