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  #11  
Old 05-11-2015, 12:41 AM
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Timeline Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by trader4 View Post
I don't understand the timeline, seems there were some missing
weeks in those 60 days of the warranty. But here are some questions
and points:

1 - With the understanding that MB was to do the "required maintenance"
on the car, do you have anything that shows what they said they actually
did? I'm not sure what that even means. For example, if they took the
car on trade, the car shows that the oil was changed about 2K miles ago,
what would they do? What should they have done, etc. Hopefully you
have documentation as to their inspection and maintenance. If they say
they changed the oil/filter, that would be key.

2 - The rotating the tires issue, IMO, is BS. I know BMW doesn't
recommend doing it, but plenty of folks are doing it, without anything
bad happening, let alone the car becoming undrivable in a week
and the front tires being ruined. Did you look at the tires before
you bought the car? After BMW told you they were shot from
being rotated?

3 - With the car losing power and coming up with severe messages like:

idrive says ENGINE MALFUNCTION, AWD MALFUNCTION, DSC MALFUNCTION, BRAKE MALFUNCTION

I wouldn't have waited for it to happen a second time, a week later,
I would have called BMW for an appointment. Especially when you
only had a 60 day warranty and the clock was ticking. That's where
the timeline doesn't add up, because it appears that right after this
the entire 60 days was gone.

4 - "I asked them to check the oil and oil filter, they only checked the oil level and nothing else."

IDK what your expectations of checking the filter were. If you asked
them to do that, I would think the service advisor would have said
that they don't typically check oil filters, only change them.

5 - Do you have the oil filter they say was old/collapsed? What does
MB have to say about that?

6 - I think your best argument here is that BMW misdiagnosed the
problem, including when you returned after driving just a mile
and that by telling you to continue to drive it, they are responsible.

But good luck proving any of that. To start with, it sounds like BMW
doesn't even know what the actual failure is, besides that there is
metal in the oil. It's possible it's something that is clearly unrelated
to the oil filter. Also BMW is obviously BSing you by saying that
codes only have to do with emissions.

Personally, I wouldn't touch a BMW V8 with a ten foot poll. But
if I did, I'd make sure it had at least a one year warranty. Given
the repair history and cost on these, even that $5k for two years
doesn't sound bad, depending on what it covers. I also agree with
what someone else said, which was it would have been a good idea
to get a PPI from someone not connected with the seller. But there
is a good chance even that wouldn't have caught this internal problem.
Besides complaining, escalating within the two dealers, with the
warranty company, etc, your options aren't too good. You can
bluster with an attorney, but to take it to trial, you're going to
have to throw a lot of money into that, with no assurance of being
able to prevail, and they know that.

Where is the car now? I'd have it towed to an authoritative, expert
mechanic for an opinion of what happened. If you have paper that
shows MB says they changed the filter, then before you totally piss
off the BMW dealer, I'd ask them to put their findings about the
collapsed filter, it being old, aftermarket, etc in writing. I wouldn't
be surprised that they won't do it. But if they will, that's important.
Then if you have proof that MB changed the filter, you have BMW experts
saying MB screwed up or lied, which could be your whole case.
You might be able to get some kind of solution where the two
dealers and the warranty company all pony us something to try
to fix this. But.... I doubt it will be easy.
To address your issue with the timeline and the tires. . .

The tires showed premature wear on the insides, the wheel-weights were also incorrect and the vibration in the steering-wheel only stopped when new tires were put on. Who knows, maybe they were bsing.

As for the timeline I didn't even think about the warranty the first time the idrive had an issue. All the Jags I have owned in my life do lots of funky things with the computer system but there is never actually a problem. The second time I realized this was going to be an ongoing issue and immediately took it into BMW.

I have documentation that shows Mercedes Benz did an oil change and an inspection.

BMW currently has the oil filter, but I can get that anytime I want. The car is still at BMW while I fight with them and MB about what to do.

I feel as though this should have been diagnosed when I brought the car back in. I only drove twenty miles before their was a major issue and it was not rough driving.

I have not owned the car long enough to mistreat it so I also feel that MB should stand behind their product.

I would like your opinion on whether or not this is a problem that BMW should have diagnosed and whether or not you think MB is at all liable for the installation of an oil filter that might have caused the engine to fail.

Thanks for the help so far.

I will keep updating on the situation.
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  #12  
Old 05-11-2015, 12:43 AM
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Update

On Monday I will head over to Madison and get the oil filter. Hopefully I can upload some pictures of its condition and get some more information.
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  #13  
Old 05-11-2015, 04:22 AM
ard ard is offline
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OP

Short of talking to an attorney, you will simply get screwed. Do you really think you will find something ANYWHERE that when you go to a BMW or MB service advisor they will say "yeah, you got us- heres $30k for a new motor!?!?!?!? They will do rope a dope with you until you exhaust your time and money. YOU getting the il filter will mean- if it goes to court- that they will say "who know WHAT happens to the oil filter we put in"

You, like many many customers fall for the "CPO" and "we inspected it " lie. Pointless.

You also didnt buy a warranty - that is really a poor decision for a used car with no history.

The whole tire thing is BS- who cares??? You can rotate tires- somehow you want to blame MB because a bmw service snot said 'we dont so that'. Just a loser argument.

Lawyer.
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  #14  
Old 05-11-2015, 04:40 AM
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"Short of talking to an attorney, you will simply get screwed. Do you really think you will find something ANYWHERE that when you go to a BMW or MB service advisor they will say "yeah, you got us- heres $30k for a new motor!?!?!?!? They will do rope a dope with you until you exhaust your time and money. YOU getting the il filter will mean- if it goes to court- that they will say "who know WHAT happens to the oil filter we put in"

You, like many many customers fall for the "CPO" and "we inspected it " lie. Pointless.

You also didnt buy a warranty - that is really a poor decision for a used car with no history.

The whole tire thing is BS- who cares??? You can rotate tires- somehow you want to blame MB because a bmw service snot said 'we dont so that'. Just a loser argument.

Lawyer."

To answer your post, the car came with a complete carfax that showed it had been taken care of and was well maintained. Obviously not purchasing a warranty didn't turn out to be the best decision. I just did not assume that I would be spending more than $5000 in two years on a car with less than 70,000 miles.

We can talk about whether or not I Should have purchased an extended warranty all day long but that does not help my current situation.

As for the comment about the tires, I was just repeating what BMW said for added clarification.
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  #15  
Old 05-11-2015, 09:18 AM
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What Ard is trying to tell you is that you needed to do your due diligence. Did you get any paper work indicating that a "once over" was completed by MB? Also, getting a clean car fax doesn't mean too much these days and an independent PPI is still important, especially on the 4.8 motors...

Good luck to you and I hope that you can resolve this with the dealers...
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  #16  
Old 05-11-2015, 10:03 AM
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Isn't BMW CPO an additional 2 years or 160 000 km (North of the border)? So the OP's X would be out of warranty? Or am I just confused? Also, I may have missed it, but what actually caused the engine to seize? Was there an actual diagnosis.
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  #17  
Old 05-11-2015, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trader4 View Post
I think you're being a bit overly negative here. Sure, MB could say
in court, "who knows what happened to that oil filter after we put it in....."
It's then up to the judge or jury to decide. What are they going to
think more likely? That the new owner took out the new filter that
he knew MB just put in and replaced it with a crap one? Or that he
just relied on the service that MB claimed they did? In my world, it's
about 99% that he, the new owner, just did nothing to the filter.
So that argument, I don't think is going to work. The real problem
is the cost of taking it to trial. Which is why I suggested he look at
potentially suing all 3 parties, separately in small claims.

As for CPO, this car wasn't so IDK why you're dragging that in and
claiming it's worthless. But AFAIK, BMW CPO includes an additional two
years on top of the existing new car warranty. Hardly seems pointless
to me.
He can't sue each individually for the same thing. If he won on the first case, the other two parties could seek the suits against them to be dismissed. He would need to sue each of the three separately for a different failure on their part, not the same failure. To sue for the same failure, all three would need to be named in the same suit. You cannot double or triple dip.

The only case he really has is the oil filter. It will comedown to either it was the incorrect filter for the car or the filter is the correct one but it failed. If it was the incorrect filter, then the MB dealer is responsible. If the filter was the correct one, then he has a case against the filter manufacturer.

Asking the BMW dealer to check the filter is basically them performing an oil change. An oil change was not requested. If it were me, I would concentrate on the oil filter failing. Anything else is going to be much harder to prove. I would be over to the BMW dealer today with a witness and use your phone to record the filter being handed over to you so there is no question that you did nothing to the filter and that is what the BMW dealer gave you.

Last edited by lanbrown; 05-11-2015 at 11:09 AM.
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  #18  
Old 05-11-2015, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierce330 View Post
Isn't BMW CPO an additional 2 years or 160 000 km (North of the border)? So the OP's X would be out of warranty? Or am I just confused? Also, I may have missed it, but what actually caused the engine to seize? Was there an actual diagnosis.
It is 2 years or 100,000 miles but he car isn't a CPO nor was it eligible. The MB dealer was offering a warranty for 2 years for $5k.

I would suggest to read post 1 again, as it is all mentioned there including that the BMW dealer says caused the engine failure.
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  #19  
Old 05-11-2015, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trader4 View Post
He's not exactly suing each for the same thing. He'd be suing the MB
dealer for either not doing the filter change or using a crappy filter.
He'd be suing BMW for failing to correctly diagnose the car, sending him
away when he immediately returned with a CEL after driving only 1 mile
that then turned it into a catastrophic failure.
I don't know what the exact rules are regarding how one can or can't
proceed against multiple parties like that. It's not double dipping, he
wouldn't get paid sums by the two that exceed the
cost of doing the repair. He should check with a lawyer. You may be
right that he has to go after all 3 at the same time. If so, that's bad
for him because then he's up against the small claims limit.

It's kind of like I hire a guy for $5000 to paint my house, I supply
the paint. He does a
lousy job, but I also think the paint is defective. Do I have to sue both
at the same time? I can't sue the painter for $1000 back for doing a
sloppy job and then later sue the paint company for money back on
the cost of the paint because the paint was also defective?
For the paint, that would be two separate cases if desired. He cannot sue the MB dealer for using a crappy oil filter that caused engine damage and then the BMW dealer for failure to diagnose what led to the same engine damage. The end result was the same, the engine failed. It is either the same suit or to just one. If a new engine is $25k and if the small claims limit is $10k, he cannot go after the others for the additional $15k. the court already heard the case of the failed engine...that is the point. Just because a plaintiff used the wrong venue, that is not a problem the defendant has to deal with.Using you logic he could get $30k if he sued each individually. See why you can't sue more than once for the same issue? Your damages are capped by what the damages actually are and then by what the court can hear. If you pick small claims, you are bound by that limit.
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  #20  
Old 05-11-2015, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanbrown View Post
It is 2 years or 100,000 miles but he car isn't a CPO nor was it eligible. The MB dealer was offering a warranty for 2 years for $5k.

I would suggest to read post 1 again, as it is all mentioned there including that the BMW dealer says caused the engine failure.
Yes, that is what I was thinking as well...someone quoted CPO earlier and I was like, no, it is just a used X...I may have misread somewhere, if that is the case, then I apologize...
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