Help! 2008 BMW x5 4.8 Engine Failure

[Skyline]

Originally Posted by Emden

The stock oil filters on BMW X5's are direct from Hengst. Its a BMW part. They lied in every sense of the word.

Agreed that the BMW filters are made by Hengst. Aside from the fact that the BMW filter comes in a BMW box, the BMW filter has a BMW Roundel printed on the top along with the BMW part number. So there is a visible difference between a filter than comes in BMW box, and one that comes in a Hengst box. Not to mention that you can get the Hengst filters for about $10.00, and the BMW ones are about $18.00.

Is the Hengst filter than they put a BMW logo on 100% exactly the same as the one with no logo? I think it is, but I just don't know that as a certainty. One certainty I CAN state, is that if it does not have a BMW logo on it, it's NOT a BMW part. So calling them liars for stating that is not quite fair. A part that is the same as a BMW part by the same manufacturer who makes the BMW part, and an actual BMW part, are NOT the same. If oil filter failure really were the cause of your engine failure, (which I doubt,) it could be all the difference in the world.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Emden

The stock oil filters on BMW X5's are direct from Hengst. Its a BMW part. They lied in every sense of the word.

Skyline already covered it, but they did not lie. Cheap is relative (apparently they are less expensive), but it is definitely aftermarket. Going in calling them liars isn't going to help you, since you need them.

You should determine if the work order from the Mercedes dealer has a part number for the oil filter that you asked them to change. Do you know if they actually changed it? This matters not because of a bad oil filter (there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the filter from the pictures) but because it speaks to whether there were metal particles in the old filter when they changed it. The Mercedes dealer is your most likely recourse, and you need the BMW dealer when you press that point.

[Skyline]

Please excuse a brief commercial interruption:

Hey JCL,

Your avatar reminded me, I assume you know that we just passed 60th anniversary of Stirling Moss's win in the 1955 Mille Miglia. 1,000 Miles averaging 98mph on public roads, (and mostly secondary roads at that.) Absolutely ridiculous.

https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/mer...-mille-miglia/

[JCL]

Originally Posted by trader4

I don't see how MB is the likely recourse.

If the Mercedes dealer documented that they changed the filter, but didn't, there is one reason. If the Mercedes dealer knew about the engine making metal (unlikely IMO) there is another reason. Both seem like a long shot.

A cel is not a smoking gun. It can come on for a loose gas cap.

Your assumption is that either the BMW dealer could have caught the failure before it became catastrophic (ie cheaper to fix) or that they could have identified the failure before it happened. Perhaps. Codes don't say the engine is making metal. They say something is out of range. If the BMW dealer fixed a symptom and not the root cause, use that to go after the warranty company. I suspect though that their policy expiry of benefits clause is pretty rigid.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by trader4

So, even if MB failed to change it, they would be liable for the cost of an oil change and filter, not the destruction of the engine.

Except that if they didn't change it, while documenting that they had, the claim is that they could have seen the metal in the oil filter. There is nothing apparently wrong with the filter. But there was an opportunity to see if the engine was making metal.

Originally Posted by trader4

As to MB knowing about the metal, again zero evidence of that. And unless someone volunteers info, it's going to be virtually impossible to find that out, let alone prove it. But even you apparently acknowledge that both of those are long shots against the dealer. I'd say they are very long shots, but then you're the one that just said in your other post that the MB dealer is his most likely recourse.

The two statements are not mutually exclusive.

Originally Posted by trader4

But like I said, the car was brought into the BMW dealer with a major problem, engine warnings up on the dash, car running in limp mode. They diagnosed and allegedly repaired what was wrong. Just 1 mile later, the CEL is on again, he goes right back. They clear the CEL, tell him it's "nothing", which in itself is suspicious, send him on his way, and 20 miles later, the engine is destroyed. Now, what's the probability that CEL was a loose gas cap, versus something related to the engine problem that destroyed it? What would a reasonable judge or jury conclude? As to who to go after, from what I've heard at this point, I'd be going after both BMW and the warranty company. The warranty company on the basis that this problem has existed when it was first brought in under warranty, but BMW failed to correctly address it, it was never fixed, etc.

When it was brought in with a major problem, the diagnosis was coil packs. They were fixed under warranty.

The OP said that then the vehicle was running perfectly. Time passed. 60 day warranty expired. During this time there were two limp mode issues. Returning to the dealer, the vehicle was already out of warranty. Your '1 mile later' and '20 miles later' comments don't relate to the warranty repair, that was earlier. Check the timeline.

[Skyline]

Originally Posted by trader4

"A cel is not a smoking gun. It can come on for a loose gas cap."

Sure it can. But like I said, the car was brought into the BMW
dealer with a major problem, engine warnings up on the dash,
car running in limp mode. They diagnosed and allegedly repaired
what was wrong. Just 1 mile later, the CEL is on again, he goes
right back. They clear the CEL, tell him it's "nothing", which in
itself is suspicious, send him on his way, and 20 miles later, the
engine is destroyed. Now, what's the probability that CEL was a
loose gas cap, versus something related to the engine problem
that destroyed it? What would a reasonable judge or jury
conclude? As to who to go after, from what I've heard at this
point, I'd be going after both BMW and the warranty company.
The warranty company on the basis that this problem has existed
when it was first brought in under warranty, but BMW failed to
correctly address it, it was never fixed, etc.

Depending on what scan tool was used to clear a CEL, it's possible the vehicle STILL contains a record of what faults were present. Was this checked? For example, if you use a generic code reader like an Innova to clear the faults, (and even dealers who have access to advanced scan tools do this out of convenience sometimes, it's MUCH quicker), these generic OBDII scanners will NOT delete the fault history.

Even with a failed engine, it will still be possible to get information from the computer.

[lanbrown]

But if the error was serious, even though it was cleared, it would have returned. You can clear CEL's all day long, they will keep coming back until the problem is fixed. So he went a mile and it cam on, he goes back, they clear it and it didn't come back did it? So correlating the CEL to the engine failure cannot be done either without knowing what the error code actually was.

OP, when you took it back for the CEL, how long did BMW have the vehicle before returning it to you and saying it was nothing?

[Emden]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

But if the error was serious, even though it was cleared, it would have returned. You can clear CEL's all day long, they will keep coming back until the problem is fixed. So he went a mile and it cam on, he goes back, they clear it and it didn't come back did it? So correlating the CEL to the engine failure cannot be done either without knowing what the error code actually was.

OP, when you took it back for the CEL, how long did BMW have the vehicle before returning it to you and saying it was nothing?

Perhaps ten minutes.

I forgot to mention that the CEL came back on when the engine started knocking.

To me it seems as though it has been the same problem almost from the time I purchased the car.

[lanbrown]

If that is the case, he has a case against the warranty company to pay to fix the engine issue, not BMW. BMW was fixing symptoms but the real cause was an engine that was going to fail. Coincidence or not in that the engine failed after 2000 miles but yet the vehicle was fine when it was sold? Probably not, it had that issue and the previous owner dumped it.

For all we know, the damage was from a spun bearing. It could be anything.

[Emden]

Here is a picture of a sheet the BMW dealer in Madison gave me of some of the fault codes in the computer.

What I want to know is what the mileage means, because the numbers under it are the wrong miles for my car.
What is going on there?

Any ideas?