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#11
05-19-2015, 12:22 AM
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#12
05-19-2015, 12:39 AM
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BMW is not alone is battery issues though, other manufacturers have issues as well. They are putting more and more electronics in but the charging system hasn't really changed. This causes issues. Did BMW make some poor decisions that other companies didn't make? Sure, but they also made some decisions that are better than what others have done.
There was talk of 42-volt electrical systems in the 90's. Those obviously never materialized. in 2011 the Germans manufacturers agreed upon a 48 volt system. A few things BMW should have done for N63 based vehicles. When you pushed the park button, the alternator should have engaged (unless that battery was already at 100%.) While a second or three would not do much for the battery system, a bit of power would have gone into it. Next, they should have activated the cooling fans to help draw air through the radiator and expel hot air out from the engine bay compartment. This should allow the cooling system that runs after the engine is turned off to run less; how much is debatable but every bit helps. To help cool the turbos on the Ford Ecoboost 3.5l V6; after the engine is off, cooler coolant is automatically circulated through the turbo because of their setup. BMW is using electrical pumps to do it. I'm sure the BMW method is more effective at removing heat, but it is at the expense of the electrical system.
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#13
05-19-2015, 04:09 PM
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I went ahead and bought another brand new battery today from BMW. Hopefully - the Autocraft battery was the culprit even though AAP technician told me battery was good.
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#14
05-19-2015, 04:30 PM
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your battery can't deliver the electrons -- no charge held?
Quote:
Your battery has NO stored-reserve to give so when you unlock the car ... the car systems power up and there isn't enough "juice to give"? 9/2v and everybody would be flaky! So you battery has no power reserve. Either the battery isn't charged or it can't hold a charge anymore? What does the autoparts store think of the battery now? Do they think it is fully charged, can they tell? My guess is another fully charged battery and everything works great. My guess is you do not drive many miles and the miles you drive are flat ... so little coasting to charge the battery. Anyway another new charged battery and it will be fine for about as long. Could be the battery wasn't introduced-setup correctly to the X5? Could be a bad battery from the beginning but I doubt that.
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#15
05-19-2015, 04:38 PM
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Answer these questions please!
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Answer these questions ... 1. How many miles a week do you drive? 2. Are a lot of these miles at night? 3. Are the roads flat or nearly so where you live. Reasoning for questions ... I repeat the car ONLY recharges the battery when coasting and that happens only lot when going down hills. Drivng a car at night means you have the lights on ... lights use more power! If you drive few miles from home to wherever you use a lot of juice powering up and starting the car and when you don't drive far ... enough coast-charging doesn't occur. Note the voltage reading on the battery when you first install a fully charged battery (write it down) ... not how it drops a little lower every week?
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#16
05-19-2015, 05:03 PM
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That is not correct in that the car only charges when coasting. The system charges the battery but will decouple the alternator from the engine under acceleration or when the battery reaches 80%. If you are braking, coasting, etc. if the battery is not at 100%, it will then couple the alternator back into play.
Watch the video: BMW EfficientDynamics : Brake Energy Regeneration The bigger issue is that the battery is never getting fully charged. Short trips do not replace the amount of energy consumed by starting the vehicle. If you do a lot of short trips, BMW recommends that you either buy a battery charger or go for a long drive. If the alternator only worked when braking or coasting, then why would a long drive help? You could drive until you ran out of fuel and no power would have been put into the battery. The N63 issue is a little different. You have that the battery will probably only see 80% charge, but when you turn the engine off you still have the cooling system operating. Keep in mind that many manufacturers use a mechanically driven water pump; BMW is using electric. So how much energy is being used for the pump to run and how long is it running after the vehicle is off? You also have that after you open a door and get out, if you don't lock the vehicle, the radio is still operating. Once again, consuming power. Pathway lighting is also running. Then you have the normal items that are always drawing power; comfort access/remote receiver, etc. So even if the alternator only charges to 80%, you need to drive far enough to let the alternator charge the battery to 80%. If you only get it to say 75% on day 1, then 70% on day 2, then 65% on day three. You are not driving far enough to actually help. If you make a 5 mile trip and there were four stops, how could you ever actually charge the battery up? Especially if the cooling system is running the entire time. Ford uses a different system so that a turbo timer isn't required. BMW doesn't use the same system as Ford but once again, they didn't want to use a turbo timer. Ford has battery issues of its own, it just may not to be the degree of BMW. Ford also isn't using electric water pumps, etc. A larger alternator might be beneficial for BMW to use. This way shorter trips when the battery is below 80% it can provide more power to charge the battery.
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#17
05-19-2015, 05:11 PM
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FYI ... I believe my newer BMW battery will become discharge with our lite use of the X5 and I believe we can ruin a battery sooner this way. My plan .... I have showing up tomorrow a cigarette lighter "voltmeter" etc. called A "Jebsen 4in1 car charger" for $11.99 via Amazon. I will monitor the batter voltage with this! I will then fully charge the battery using a 021-0123 I already have for my boat.
And then I watch the voltage at rest. I suspect the x5 voltage will drop over weeks and as needed I will charge the battery weekly or bi-weekly? To make this easier I may need to install a plug in my x5 grill to go to directly to the battery "jump spot". At any rate ... I will not see the battery harmed or have the car ... strand me or my wife. I won't even let the X5 confuse me with failing systems because they aren't working right because of a low battery ... go figure. I am a engineer this isn't rocket science but it isn't it just it works either! Shame on BMW for making such a stupid flawed design here!
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#18
05-19-2015, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Believe nothing read or heard without verifying it oneself unless it, Weltanschauung congruent, fits ones worldview.
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#19
05-19-2015, 06:42 PM
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I do the same Ron07X5.
Cigarette lighter volt meter, smart charger if the X sits for more then 3 days. I also replace the battery when voltage drops to 12.2 after sitting for 2 days. 12 yrs/200k miles and still on OE alternator, OE battery lasted 8 yrs, Autozone battery 4 yrs, just installed a Bosch unit.
__________________
'03 X5 4.4 Sport, last of the M62s (8-03 build date) I believe in deadication to craftmanship in a world of mediocrity!
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#20
05-19-2015, 07:13 PM
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BMW is not alone here, a lot of brands have issues when vehicles are not driven far enough to charge the battery. There have been a huge surge in adding in electronic features that all suck down power. The alternators have not increased in capacity to match. BMW went a more complicated route but getting 4.5 years out of a battery is about what you would expect. Ford, GM, Chrysler ll have had battery issues as well. There are many modules in the car and they all take power and they usually have an awake and a sleep mode. When they are awake, they take more power and it can be 30 to 45 minutes before they go to sleep. The battery a car has today is not much different than the battery they had over 20 years ago.
I think a 48-volt system will help things. You can use thinner wires as they can handle the same wattage compared to a 12 volt system. Say you need 48 watts on a 12 volt system. That would be 4 amps and would require a 15 AWG wire. On a 48 volt system, that would only be 1 amp and a 21 AWG wire can be used. A 48 volt system could help reduce power requirements; the hybrids aren't using 12-volts motors. Another factor that has caused this; more gears. We have had four speeds for ages and then 5 speeds came around, then 6 speeds and not long after 7 to 10 speed transmissions. The reasoning has been better fuel mileage and how do you get better fuel mileage with more gears? Reduce the RPM while driving. In the city and not going fast enough for top gear; you will still find an 8 speed allowing lower RPM's than say a 6 speed. On the highway, you will find an 8 speed allows lower RPM's for going the same speed. Lower RPM's means lower alternator output since it to is spinning slower. Add more electronics in a vehicle that want power and you have to drive farther to replace what was consumed by the starter and the electronic while it was off. The N63 has a 230 amp alternator. The N62 has an 180 amp alternator. Both of those ratings would be at 2500 RPM or higher. I can be in top gear and run at around 1000 to 1100 RPM doing around 45 to 50. On a 6 speed, that would be about 1300 RPM. To go 70 MPH; it is 1900 RPM on an 8 speed and 2100 RPM on a 6 speed. So while the alternator is larger, it has to be because the engine is spinning slower to do the same amount of work. There are many factors why people are seeing battery issues now compared to earlier vehicles.
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