E70 X5 ATF fluid experience with Febi 34608?

[fast4d]

agree.

Originally Posted by X5Boise

As an update, did the drain and refill using the Febi/Bilstein 34608 ATF (used a little over 5 quarts). Has been working great with no issues. Based on spec sheets (see attached), the BMW ZF 6 speed transmission utilizes Shell M-1375.4 fluid (see pages 6 and page 7 for E70 cars with I6 and V8 engines).

In the same note, so long as the fluid meets and is certified for the specification, it should be fine. Otherwise, I would imagine you would ONLY use genuine BMW fluids--genuine BMW engine oil, genuine BMW DOT4 brake fluid, genuine BMW rear differential fluid, genuine BMW BlueDef (if you have a diesel), and dare I say genuine BMW washer fluid? A bit overkill. If the fluid didn't meet specification, that's a different story. Of note, I stuck with genuine BMW transfer case fluid as there's no substitute, given there is no listed/known specification for it. Of course, everyone is welcome to use what they are comfortable with paying.

[ard]

Originally Posted by X5Boise

As an update, did the drain and refill using the Febi/Bilstein 34608 ATF (used a little over 5 quarts). Has been working great with no issues. Based on spec sheets (see attached), the BMW ZF 6 speed transmission utilizes Shell M-1375.4 fluid (see pages 6 and page 7 for E70 cars with I6 and V8 engines).

In the same note, so long as the fluid meets and is certified for the specification, it should be fine. .

You are confused. BMW and ZF recommend one fluid. This fluid happens to also meet M-1375.4

This does not mean all fluids that meet that spec are 'recommended'.

It is pretty simple logic. (Venn diagram stuff...)

Now, if you want to go outside of the recommended fluids, that is fine- and I might even say it is likely to be technically sound- but you ARE outside of the recommendations.

I totally agree that there is likely nothing magical about BMW recommendations- but given that both BMW and ZF have not published a complete spec other than ZF6, it is a disservice to try and say 'all you need is shell M175.4 to meet all the BMW (or ZF) requirements'

[X5Boise]

Originally Posted by ard

You are confused. BMW and ZF recommend one fluid. This fluid happens to also meet M-1375.4

This does not mean all fluids that meet that spec are 'recommended'.

It is pretty simple logic. (Venn diagram stuff...)

Now, if you want to go outside of the recommended fluids, that is fine- and I might even say it is likely to be technically sound- but you ARE outside of the recommendations.

I totally agree that there is likely nothing magical about BMW recommendations- but given that both BMW and ZF have not published a complete spec other than ZF6, it is a disservice to try and say 'all you need is shell M175.4 to meet all the BMW (or ZF) requirements'

BMW published data that their E70 transmissions (ZF happens to build them) use ATF with Shell M1375.4 specifications. Shell was the original manufacturer (and they for a time made that exact fluid, but sometime around 2011, they stopped making it and it became quite scarce to find (was $7/quart when I had my E53), and apparantly in the past couple years a few other manufacturers picked up where the niche was since for a time only ZF and BMW were the only 2 options and doing some relative price gouging.

Definitely agree that fluid "approval" does not necessarily equal "recommendation." There's more to it.

As you can see in the previous documents provided, BMW E70 transmissions call for Shell M-1375.4 ATF. Whatever those exact technical specifications be, any fluid to be approved for a particular specification would need to meet what was outlined by the manufacturer. So approved fluids for M-1375.4 specifications needed to meet those specs. Febi 34608 and Pentosin ATF1 happen to meet M-1375.4, with Pentosin ATF1 even went ahead and got further testing to also being approved for ZF's own TE-ML11B specification for 6 speed transmissions.

How does one get "approval" for a specification? You would need to submit your fluid and tested to the specs from the original specifications. You don't put an approval stamp on your fluid without risk of litigation for false advertisement for poor performance and/or damage. RMEuropean, Pelican, FCPEuro, and AutohausAZ, among other retailers stock, list and sell this Febi/Bilstein fluid (along with ZF LG6, genuine BMW, and Pentosin ATF1) for my 2011 35d. Heck, FCPEuro even lists genuine BMW M1375.4 ATF for sale for my car: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...er-83222220445

Now how does one get a "recommendation"? Of course BMW would "recommend" their own fluid, and of course, ZF would "recommend" their own LifeGuard 6 fluid. Why would they want to "recommend" Febi/Bilstein 34608 or Pentosin ATF1, when they have their own interests in play? There would be licensing fees charged to Febi/Bilstein or Pentosin to get that and the cost savings would not be so apparant.

Likewise as "Price" mentioned, why does BMW all of sudden recommend Shell recently, when in the past (probably past few decades) it was all Castrol fluids? Heck my Mercedes "recommends" Mobil1, but that's not the only oil I use in there--I use oil that meets objective specifications my car calls for. Think marketing and licensing fees involved and maybe some other financial incentives for the recent BMW "recommendation" to Shell?

[Price]

Not long ago BMW recommended Castrol - even the oil cap says this!:-) - and now magically Shell is the way to go...

Febi is OK. It's likely the very same fluid found in ZF bottles, from the same manufacturer, just different distributor.

[SeanC]

Regarding washer fluid, whatever you decide to use, do NOT use Rain-X. I did up until recently and had to replace two washer pumps on the X5. Likely cause of failing washer pumps on my previous BMWs.

[bawareca]

According to BMW, 6 and 8 speed transmissions in LCI E70 are specified for ATF2.

[X5Boise]

Originally Posted by bawareca

According to BMW, 6 and 8 speed transmissions in LCI E70 are specified for ATF2.

Great clarification--thank you.

All pre-LCI E70 gas-engined (2007-2010) and all E70 diesels (2009-2013)used 6 speed ZF transmissions (which my post on the Febi 34608 ATF (and on the side, to Pentosin ATF1) pertains to--only 6 speed transmissions).

Whereas, the LCI E70 gas-engined (2011 and above; with twin turbo gas I6 or twin turbo gas V8 engines) have 8 speed transmissions, which use ZF Lifeguard 8 or apparently BMW ATF2 (or their spec-approved equivalents, which I have not personally looked into).

[bawareca]

If you look-up realoem, X535D from 07/20111 calls for ATF2. Perhaps ATF1 and 2 are the same, but who knows really.

[X5Boise]

2 MONTH UPDATE

About 6 weeks after changing to Febi/Bilstein ATF 34608 (Shell M-1375.4 approved), I noticed my car was shifting a bit hard from 2nd to 3rd gear. Initially this hard (at times rough) 2-3 shifting was only in the AM when cold, then a few weeks later when I went on a 900 mile road trip, this rough 2-3 shifting would also occur it was warm and under higher torque conditions (uphill or with passengers). Had me concerned a bit, but I realized that I had not done an adaptation reset via software.

When I returned from my trip, I had an local independent do the adaptation reset via their software package (this is not the same as the ignition to ON, then flooring the pedal, then start sequence). Immediately after the adaptation reset, my shifting is back to normal and smooth again.

Of note, when you change the ATF in these cars, it will change the viscosity and friction modifiers with the new fluid. The car's transmission will need to a software reset to re-learn the new fluid characteristics for smooth shifting again.

[ard]

Originally Posted by X5Boise

2 MONTH UPDATE

About 6 weeks after changing to Febi/Bilstein ATF 34608 (Shell M-1375.4 approved), I noticed my car was shifting a bit hard from 2nd to 3rd gear. Initially this hard (at times rough) 2-3 shifting was only in the AM when cold, then a few weeks later when I went on a 900 mile road trip, this rough 2-3 shifting would also occur it was warm and under higher torque conditions (uphill or with passengers). Had me concerned a bit, but I realized that I had not done an adaptation reset via software.

When I returned from my trip, I had an local independent do the adaptation reset via their software package (this is not the same as the ignition to ON, then flooring the pedal, then start sequence). Immediately after the adaptation reset, my shifting is back to normal and smooth again.

Of note, when you change the ATF in these cars, it will change the viscosity and friction modifiers with the new fluid. The car's transmission will need to a software reset to re-learn the new fluid characteristics for smooth shifting again.

1. You did not put 'new' fluid in. You mixed 50% old fluid with 50% febi fluid which is chemically differnt than ZF6.

2. In the document you posted it states:

3.0i from start production to present
The transmission fluid has a Condition Based Service interval of approximately 100,000 miles; please refer to S.I. B00 07
02 for further information. Never mix any other oil with this transmission fluid when doing repairs or topping up.
Shell M-1375.4, BMW Part No. 83 22 0 142 516

Note that 83-22 0 142 516 is a SPECIFIC fluid. It is ZF6. Your assertion that any fluid meeting Shell M-1375.4 can be freely intermixed with ZF6 does other owners a disservice.

IMO that comma between M-1375.4 and BMW does not mean OR...

3. I know it is liberating to decide 'you are not going to fall for the man's manipulation of your oil buying decisions'...and 'you will not slavishly adhere to what BMW says for oil'. In fact, I might be much more supportive if you actually CHANGED the fluid to some new fluid.... it is the mixing of fluids and differentiating additive packages and friction modifiers that I find troubling. I do wish BITOG had more info on this.

4. I changed my ATF, using ZF6, and didnt have to reset crap. Havent read a report here where people had to reset the transmission after using ZF6.

5. Do report back, OK?