2009 3.0 AC blowing hot air

[ard]

Originally Posted by ralphy4321

HI, do you happen to know how much a AC shop will charge for this. BMW is trying to charge me $2800 for the leak

This seems...confused.

I am describing a process for topping off freon, NOT 'fixing a diagnosed leak'. I just had it done on my other BMW, was $95 for labor and $48 for freon. Needed about 10 oz, last time it was serviced was 2009. (Same shop, sticker under the hood.)


If BMW is charging 2800 to fix a LEAK, then that is fixing a leak- not topping off freon.

How did this leak get diagnosed? What is leaking??

[ralphy4321]

Originally Posted by ard

Do not just 'add freon'.... You can damage the compressor by overfilling.

The only way to PROPERLY service the AC is to pump it down- which removes the freon- it will automatically check for leaks- then refill with the proper amount by weight. The tolerance on fill is a few %.

Any Idea how I "Pump It Down" Any videos or can you tell me what i need to do. Thanks

[ard]

Originally Posted by ralphy4321

Any Idea how I "Pump It Down" Any videos or can you tell me what i need to do. Thanks

Sigh.

Buy yourself the AC machine, about $3k

https://www.amazon.com/Robinair-3428...8&s=automotive

Buy some freon.

Follow the instructions.



Disturbingly, instead of understanding my response and integrating that info into a coherent response, you ignore the request and ask 'is there a youtube I can watch on my phone and do it without any understanding of what I am trying to do'

Ill try again: DO YOU HAVE A LEAK? Yes No

What is the BMW dealer offering to do for $2800? ____________________ ___________________ ____________________

[Aquamania]

Originally Posted by giaka

Adding refrigerant to the X5 has to be the easiest thing I have even done to a car. Not even kidding. Buy a can with the builtin gauge, start your car and put the AC on max. Connect the can to the low pressure side (it will only fit the low pressure side) which is very very accessible BTW. Read the gauge (will probably be below 25 psi) and squeeze the trigger while rocking the can in your hand. Let off the trigger read the gauge, repeat until you hit 30-ish psi. It will take you all of 5 minutes to do. You can probably buy cans with dye in it if that is a concern.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHg2xRMnM38

Excellent advice!!!

[ralphy4321]

Originally Posted by ard

Sigh.

Buy yourself the AC machine, about $3k

https://www.amazon.com/Robinair-3428...8&s=automotive

Buy some freon.

Follow the instructions.



Disturbingly, instead of understanding my response and integrating that info into a coherent response, you ignore the request and ask 'is there a youtube I can watch on my phone and do it without any understanding of what I am trying to do'

Ill try again: DO YOU HAVE A LEAK? Yes No

What is the BMW dealer offering to do for $2800? ____________________ ___________________ ____________________

HI ARD..

Do I Have a Leak? Yes, I do. I thought I put that in my Original request when I said BMW Dealer is charging me $2800 to repair a leak.

Now I do not know where the leak is located, I know is not around the compressor because i fixed that last year with them and that's still under warranty. They called me yesterday and told me you have a leak and to repair it is $2800. I said No too much money I will pick up my car today.

All I asked was for some help.

[ard]

Originally Posted by ralphy4321

HI ARD..

Do I Have a Leak? Yes, I do. I thought I put that in my Original request when I said BMW Dealer is charging me $2800 to repair a leak.

Now I do not know where the leak is located, I know is not around the compressor because i fixed that last year with them and that's still under warranty. They called me yesterday and told me you have a leak and to repair it is $2800. I said No too much money I will pick up my car today.

All I asked was for some help.

But if you have a LEAK why i the world would you ask for a YouTube to "just top off the freon"??????????????

THAT is what didn't make sense. If you have a leak, you ask for help finding and fixing the leak. NOT adding more freon so it can also leak away.....

If you cannot figure out how to get the BMW dealer to tell you what is leaking and what SPECFOCALLY they will be changing for $2800, then you need to go to a new shop.

I was hanging out with my AC guy a week ago, working on my car and BSing...there is a sad, painful truth about AC system work:

1. You can inspect the system, looking for signs of freon/oil leaking out- but this is difficult. The oil leaves a telltale stain, but you need to be lucky to see this- most of the time there is plenty of other dirt/oil.

2. You can hook up gauges, but this doesn't tell the whole story. If freon has gone, you will not see much with gauges. At this point, the diagnosis tree has 3 branches- minor leak, needs freon, but will be fine.....major leak, added freon will just disappear....failure of a major component, will need Fixing

The problem here is that there is NO WAY to know which of these three options you will be on. Shops struggle with informing customers what the options are and what the possible choices are...

3. Definitive diagnosis requires that you evacuate the system, check to see it will hold a vacuum. IF IT HOLD A VACUUM, you have ruled out ONE of the 3 problems: the system isn't leaking. (You will also have extracted freon, and if the system WAS full, then that tells you there is something not working in the system unrelated to a freon loss)

4. You then refill the system, ADD UV LEAK FLUID, and button it up. Run it, look at gauges. If the gauges show you that you are not getting the specified pressures, you have a problem with (usually) the compressor. Other items can fail- crap in the expansion valve, other stuff- but those tend to be secondary failures due to a comp failure leaving debris in the system.

You say they already replaced the compressor last year, and therefor you KNOW it cannot be any of the prior work.

Why do you trust them?

IMO the only option (other than demanding info from them) is to take it to an AC shop for a proper diagnosis. Be prepared to spend $100-200.

**IF** this shop finds the leak was related to the compressor repair, get that in writing and raise hell with the dealer.

[Toothbrush]

Originally Posted by ralphy4321

All I asked was for some help.

Sometimes it's as much knowing how or what to ask as it is where and who to ask.

But, I'd say you got some pretty good help from ARD, who by the way, is only trying to cut to the chase and not waste anybody's time (including yours) while actually providing sound advice/direction.

Originally Posted by ard

But if you have a LEAK why i the world would you ask for a YouTube to "just top off the freon"??????????????

THAT is what didn't make sense. If you have a leak, you ask for help finding and fixing the leak. NOT adding more freon so it can also leak away.....

If you cannot figure out how to get the BMW dealer to tell you what is leaking and what SPECFOCALLY they will be changing for $2800, then you need to go to a new shop.

I was hanging out with my AC guy a week ago, working on my car and BSing...there is a sad, painful truth about AC system work:

1. You can inspect the system, looking for signs of freon/oil leaking out- but this is difficult. The oil leaves a telltale stain, but you need to be lucky to see this- most of the time there is plenty of other dirt/oil.

2. You can hook up gauges, but this doesn't tell the whole story. If freon has gone, you will not see much with gauges. At this point, the diagnosis tree has 3 branches- minor leak, needs freon, but will be fine.....major leak, added freon will just disappear....failure of a major component, will need Fing

The problem here is that there is NO WAY to know which of these three options you will be on. Shops struggle with informing customers what the options are and what the possible choices are...

3. Definitive diagnosis requires that you evacuate the ssytem, check to see it will hold a vacuum. IF IT HOLD A VACUUM, yoiu have ruled out ONE of the 3 problems: the system isn't leaking. (You will also have extracted freon, and if the ssytem WAS full, then that tells you there is something not working in the ssytem unrelated to a freon loss)

4. You then refill the system, ADD UV LEAK FLUID, and button it up. Run it, look at gauges. If the gauges show you that you are not getting the specificed pressures, you have a problem with (usually) the compressor. Other items can fail- crap in the expansion valve, other stuff- but those tend to be secondary failures due to a comp failure leaving debris in the system.

You say they already replaced the compressor last year, and therefor you KNOW it cannot be any of the prior work.

Why do you trust them?

IMO the only option (other than demanding info from them) is to take it to an AC shop for a proper diagnosis. Be prepared to spend $100-200.

**IF** this shop finds the leak was related to the compressor repair, get that in writing and raise hell with the dealer.

[ard]

Edit: the dealer may have done a crap job when they last repaired it...they may thing 'ralphy is an idiot, we can prolly get him to pay $2800 and pay for our mistake'. One universal truth I have discovered over the last 30 years, customers think they can make decisions based on the 'facts' they alone uncover in conversations with mechanics/dealers/techs. As if careful analysis and wisdom will allow they to 'figure it out'. Sadly, with some places, they are being manipulated - and no amount of study nor understanding will get them out of their jam. Do not assume it isnt the compressor becuase they did it a year aog and it is under warranty.

In actual fact, a grenaded compressor that showers pieces in the system, followed by a piss-poor system cleaning is a PRIME way for a brand new compressor (or evap or whatever) to fail.

Here is where you are at a TOTAL disadvantage: the fox is guarding the hen house.... The shop may not have done an adeaute job. The currernt failure MAY be related to the old failure. (Or it might not) You will never get to the bottom with the dealer. (**I** might be able to, demand to know what they did, what pressures they are seeing, did they add UV before, where are they seeing it, etc etc) But if they are covering a failure from before it will be hard to know.


Anyway, find out where the leak is AND how they diagnosed it. Get that in wiring, before taking the car back

[giaka]

Originally Posted by ard

But if you have a LEAK why i the world would you ask for a YouTube to "just top off the freon"??????????????

THAT is what didn't make sense. If you have a leak, you ask for help finding and fixing the leak. NOT adding more freon so it can also leak away.....

Part of that was my mistake, I thought I was still dealing with the OP.

[ard]

Originally Posted by giaka

Part of that was my mistake, I thought I was still dealing with the OP.

Yeah, I don't think so. He specially quoted my post about pumping down and filling based on weight.


Anyway, I really tried to impart some advice on how to deal with AC stuff. It's not unique to BMWs. You see this with EVERY car brand. You could write the same script, just leave out the make and models......