Another EGR Cooler (P2457) Thread...

[12PGM35D]

Alright guys, I recently purchased a 2012 X5 35D with 79k miles earlier this month. About (2) weeks after purchasing it I noticed some small, dime size, oil spots on the driveway. After I cleaned everything up with brake clean I was hoping it was one of the easy to get to oil lines leaking. Took the X5 to my local bimmer shop & lucky it was the short, upper oil feed line leaking. Replaced that & no more oil leak.

While I had the X5 there I had the shop do a full inspection. Shop suggested I keep an eye on the EGR Cooler as there was some soot near the common leak area. I noticed that as well before bringing it to them. No CELs at the time, so of course I wasn't going to worry about it. They quoted just under $1300 to replace it.

Put another (200) miles on so on the X5 & pop, CEL comes on. It was the small CEL that is up top. Went by my local Advance Auto Parts, borrowed a scanned. P2457 was the code, "EGR Cooling System Performance".....of course. I did not clear the code as I am trying to decide if I wanted to take it by the dealer or my local bimmer shop. Performance & drive ability has not changed. Since the CEL popped on I have probably put another 150+ miles on the X5.

I've been on the phone with BMW NA, my local BMW Dealer, the BMW Dealer I purchased it from & my local bimmer shop trying to decide what to do. According to the "Warranty Vehicle Inquiry" paperwork I received there is still an 'Active' Federal Emission Warranty up to 80k miles.

Unfortunately the research I've done so far doesn't look like the Federal Emission Warranty will not cover the EGR Cooler. My vehicle does have the updated EGR Cooler Bracket installed. I've seen only a couple situations where people were super lucky & got the cooler replaced under that warranty but it looks like the majority have not.

My question, will there be any issues if I continue to drive the X5 with the P2457? Like I said, currently no difference in performance or drive ability.
With about 80k miles on the X5, if I replace the cooler, I might as well look into replacing most or all of the vacuum lines & have the CBU service completed. Local bimmer shop quoted around $1600 for the vacuum lines & CBU service.

Usually I prefer to replace a bad OEM item with something better aftermarket. After a little research I came across this EGR Race Pipe...

EGR Race Pipe for BMW 335D and X5 35D

Does anyone have an experience with this item?

I've already inquired about dyno tune packages with my local bimmer shop. Of course, if I were to delete the EGR Valve/cooler it would need to be tuned.

Sorry for the long post, just trying to give all the info I can. Any feedback, input or suggestions is appreciated!!

[12PGM35D]

Anyone?

And the local shop I am referring to in my above post is Bimmer Performance Center. Luckily I am local to them, 20 miles or so.

[Price]

In general, unless CEL is blinking and/or you get "reduced power.." message, you can continue driving. Having said that, replacing the cooler itself isn't that difficult. Vacuum lines and CBU cleaning is purely optional and imho a waste of $$. Again, imho. Some invest in detailing suspension parts, so what do I know....

[Thecastle]

Yup, I have experience with diesels and emissions failures, I purchased a 2011 "lemon" 335D under warranty that had to have extensive repair work to make it work right! The X5 35D and 335D have the same engine (though there are small differences). I've replaced everything in the emissions system at least 1x. My family used to laugh that the car spent more time in the shop than at home. I just said it was lonely and missed the dealer service bay. The SES was just a reminder that the car strayed to far from the dealer service bay ;-)

You should pull the BMW specific error code on the car to determine what the actual issue might be. Anyway with a possible "EGR" issue, there is no harm in continuing to drive the car with the SES light on. There will be no performance difference. I've done it countless times, the car does not enter limp mode for EGR failures.

EGR codes are not possible to diagnose without the BMW specific codes. Everything from exhaust pressure sensor failures, EGR valve failures, Cooler Failures, MAF failures, differential pressure failures, etc. could throw an SES for the EGR. I'd actually spend a little time looking at the code because the car throws codes for "EGR implausibility" but it can mean a range of things that a tune/bypass won't fix.

Assuming your EGR cooler is broken, the cheaper fix is to take the computer out and send it to JR tuning and have the EGR tuned out, then block it (unless you buy a salvage cooler). This will remove the SES, and improve fuel economy, and stop carbon build up. The race pipe above is fine, or use IAKNOWNS block plates, either will work. Frankly I'd be real surprised that a X5 needed a CBU cleaning at 80K, but hell mine had it done at 21K miles......

[12PGM35D]

Originally Posted by Price

In general, unless CEL is blinking and/or you get "reduced power.." message, you can continue driving. Having said that, replacing the cooler itself isn't that difficult. Vacuum lines and CBU cleaning is purely optional and imho a waste of $$. Again, imho. Some invest in detailing suspension parts, so what do I know....

Good to know, thanks! Your X5 looks great, so keep wasting time detailing suspension parts!

Originally Posted by Thecastle

EGR codes are not possible to diagnose without the BMW specific codes. Everything from exhaust pressure sensor failures, EGR valve failures, Cooler Failures, MAF failures, differential pressure failures, etc. could throw an SES for the EGR. I'd actually spend a little time looking at the code because the car throws codes for "EGR implausibility" but it can mean a range of things that a tune/bypass won't fix.

Assuming your EGR cooler is broken, the cheaper fix is to take the computer out and send it to JR tuning and have the EGR tuned out, then block it (unless you buy a salvage cooler). This will remove the SES, and improve fuel economy, and stop carbon build up. The race pipe above is fine, or use IAKNOWNS block plates, either will work. Frankly I'd be real surprised that a X5 needed a CBU cleaning at 80K, but hell mine had it done at 21K miles......

Could you suggest a reasonably price scan tool that will show BMW specific codes? As I mentioned in my OP, I'm assuming the EGR cooler has a crack in it as there is soot near the common leak area.

I've seen the block off plates but I would prefer to do the Race Pipe. If the EGR Cooler is cracked might as well get the EGR valve out of there too. Cleaner setup & a little better air flow going into the motor.

If I decide to go with the Race Pipe I would be getting rid of the item that creates the carbon build up. So if I do Race pipe & tune, might as well do CBU cleaning too, maybe get a little more hp & mpg out of the X5 with all that done at once.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by 12PGM35D

Could you suggest a reasonably price scan tool that will show BMW specific codes? As I mentioned in my OP, I'm assuming the EGR cooler has a crack in it as there is soot near the common leak area.

Carly (from google playstore) with a BT adapter is probably the cheapest. I also like the Foxwell NT-510 I have both. Carly is cheap but buggy. The reason I suggest looking at the codes is that; EGR plausibility is a DDE calculated value based on airflow though the engine. Any sensor that is off or big enough leaks, failures, etc. could trigger a code. Address whats wrong to ensure if you tune it will actually address the issue.

Originally Posted by 12PGM35D

I've seen the block off plates but I would prefer to do the Race Pipe. If the EGR Cooler is cracked might as well get the EGR valve out of there too. Cleaner setup & a little better air flow going into the motor.

Yeah the EGR coolers crack fairly often on these cars. But typically a crack won't throw a code. You'll usually get a strong smell of exhaust too with a crack.... Where are you seeing soot at? Are you loosing coolant (another sign of a crack)?

Originally Posted by 12PGM35D

If I decide to go with the Race Pipe I would be getting rid of the item that creates the carbon build up. So if I do Race pipe & tune, might as well do CBU cleaning too, maybe get a little more hp & mpg out of the X5 with all that done at once.

CBU cleaning if done right would be a good thing, but its spendy, typically about $1500, if nothing else brakes. Water meth can help mechanically clean the intake tract but won't remove backed on carbon.

You may also want to check your vacuum lines, red boost hose and vibration damper, these all fail at your milage.

P.S. if you really want to read about mods/fixes for your car the e90post diesel forums are the most active.

[12PGM35D]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

Carly (from google playstore) with a BT adapter is probably the cheapest. I also like the Foxwell NT-510 I have both. Carly is cheap but buggy. The reason I suggest looking at the codes is that; EGR plausibility is a DDE calculated value based on airflow though the engine. Any sensor that is off or big enough leaks, failures, etc. could trigger a code. Address whats wrong to ensure if you tune it will actually address the issue.

Yeah the EGR coolers crack fairly often on these cars. But typically a crack won't throw a code. You'll usually get a strong smell of exhaust too with a crack.... Where are you seeing soot at? Are you loosing coolant (another sign of a crack)?

CBU cleaning if done right would be a good thing, but its spendy, typically about $1500, if nothing else brakes. Water meth can help mechanically clean the intake tract but won't remove backed on carbon.

You may also want to check your vacuum lines, red boost hose and vibration damper, these all fail at your milage.

P.S. if you really want to read about mods/fixes for your car the e90post diesel forums are the most active.

I've read & watched some youtube videos about the Carly app. I'll read up on the Foxwell unit today. I prefer some type of handheld unit over an app.

I am seeing some soot where the EGR Cooler mates to the EGR. To be honest, I don't have a strong exhaust smell at all. Once I started to see the soot I was waiting for the smell. Wife & I have been driving the X5 around a lot looking at furniture for the new house, she has a super sensitive nose, so she would definitely say something, haha. I haven't checked the coolant in a week or so.

BPC quoted me close to $1200 for the CBU service. Definitely won't be installing water/meth on this. I've been a 4G63 DSM/Evo guy since 2002 & I've never been a fan of water/meth setups.

I've visually inspected the vacuum lines that are easy to check out & they look good at the moment. I think I'm going to look into a scan tool so I can pull the BMW specific codes. Recently closed & moved into our new house so I can't/I'm not trying to spend any money on the X5 at the moment, haha.

Since the performance, drive ability & fuel mileage aren't being affected with the SES light, I'll ride it out for a bit.

Looks like future plans are: CBU Service, Replace all vacuum lines, Oil Change, Maybe Fuel Filter, EGR Race Pipe & Tune.

[Ricky Bobby]

Is it possible to delete the EGR with a tune and still have SCR and DPF in place? I always thought you had to delete all 3 at the same time?

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby

Is it possible to delete the EGR with a tune and still have SCR and DPF in place? I always thought you had to delete all 3 at the same time?

Sooo tuning is like a baking a cake. You need all of the ingredients to ensure that you have good tasting cake, if you leave out any ingredients you can have a bad cake. Or in other words, the tuners all designed the deletes to work together and for maximum "reliability" I'd do all of them.

I've had experiences in other tuned cars where if you don't follow the tunner recipe you can have unexpected "issues"

However, the tuners do offer an EGR only delete with stock exhaust and emissions in place (DOC/DPF/SCR). I have this tune from JR tuning on my 335D for many months and 1000's of miles without any issues.

Early on some tuners had issues with the EGR only delete preventing the DPF from successfully performing a regen, but this issue has since been fixed.

[12PGM35D]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

However, the tuners do offer an EGR only delete with stock exhaust and emissions in place (DOC/DPF/SCR). I have this tune from JR tuning on my 335D for many months and 1000's of miles without any issues.

Early on some tuners had issues with the EGR only delete preventing the DPF from successfully performing a regen, but this issue has since been fixed.

Good to know you've been running an EGR only delete & tune for a while with no issues, thanks!

Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby

Is it possible to delete the EGR with a tune and still have SCR and DPF in place? I always thought you had to delete all 3 at the same time?

This is what I wanted to confirm. Looks like Thecastle, and others, have been running that setup for a while so I guess that means we would be good to go.