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  #21  
Old 12-03-2017, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ard View Post
Blanket statements by BOTH of you are likely wrong:

The newest BMWs with IBS and load control modules have demonstrated problems when trying to jump start with any power source. (AAA, another running car or a booster) Sometimes.

Older BMWs - 'many'- will jump fine. Or use a booster box.

My 2012 wouldnt turn over, tried to jump it- no joy. Connected an AGM charger overnight, started the next day. Actually quite maddening.

Its just a car with a 12V system, right? Not quite.

Generally I agree that BMWs arent special; they dont need magic tools or high priests to affect repairs. But there is something odd with this aspect...sometimes... You ignore the POSSIBILITY at your own peril.

It's hysterical to me. I'm telling you what I've done, but folks still like to say it can't happen. Yes, if the battery is REALLY dead, it's harder to start a car with a jump, but guess what, that's true on ANY CAR!

They are 12V cars, but I do agree, electrically finicky because of POOR ENGINEERING by BMW. But you can jump start them with other cars and jumper boxes, amazing news I guess, I didn't realize that would be the most exciting part of the thread.
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  #22  
Old 12-03-2017, 04:35 AM
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So I figured I’d circle back around and update the post since I struggled to find any good information specifically about the starter on the E70 4.8.

I can confirm, the starter location is under the engine on the passenger side (thanks for the parts diagram). If you remove the main metal plate you can see it just above a bunch of cooling lines, under a heat-shield. You are seeing the smaller side of the starter (the solenoid). The main starter motor is above the solenoid. So the assembly is sitting with the starter gear facing the rear of the car, the wire connections facing the front of the car, the large starter motor on top, and the smaller solenoid on the bottom. You can see that solenoid smiling at your under the heat shield as soon as you look up along the exhaust on the passenger side.

If you’re taking the starter out, a few things:

first, make sure the battery is disconnected, I’m sure you already know that if you planning this type of repair, but it’s worth repeating since the main power lead is dangerous with a battery connected!

To remove the starter you also need to remove the second metal plate covering the transmission. You are going to need that access to remove it and to get your hands up by the starter to work.

The first thing I did was unbolt the heat shield from the starter. It’s connected with a 10mm bolt on the side and two 10mm nuts. The bolt is obvious on the side, and the 2 nuts are on the back of the main starter motor (the bigger part of the 2 pieces). One is easy to see, the other is symmetrically on the other side of the rear of the starter motor, you can’t easily see it. I’m not going to lie, it’s tight and annoying to work in the space. You can get them off, but it’s not easy and you need to use creativity and lots of different combinations to find something that works. The good news, these bolts and nuts are on very lightly, so it doesn’t take much to get them moving and then your fingers can do the rest. Interestingly, I did change my strategy on the second heat shield nut, I left it attached and removed the 2 starter bolts holding the assembly in place. I was then able to tilt the back of the starter (which faces the front of the car) down and with a combination of extensions and knuckles get to it with a socket over the A arm (there’s a small gap above it, just enough to thread an extension - knuckle - extension above). That was actually way easier once I realize I could do it, so you might just want to start with that strategy for both the 10mm heat shield nuts.

The 2 main starter bolts are torx bolts. I forget the size, but pretty standard, you don’t need any silly sizes. They came off fairly easily with some extensions and knuckles again, it’s not so much a tight space, the two bolts are just awkwardly positioned near the transmission and some wire harnesses. These bolts run from the rear of the car forward. Be sure you have the correct top bolt, you can’t see it, but you can feel it. There’s another torx bolt up on top though the same size, for the bell housing, so you can get the wrong one. Just look at the new starter and make sure you have the right spacing between the 2 mounting bolts.

Once the starter bolts are removed, you can get some play in the starter assembly to get a bit of room to disconnect the main power line. It’s straightforward and easy. There’s also a wire harness connection that is spring loaded with one of those spring clips they use everywhere. It’s also pretty obvious and straightforward, just move the spring clip up and the harness pulls off. Those wires are really long and can be moved around pretty easily.

Now the hard part, getting it out. It comes out backwards (toward the back of the car) following the exhaust pipe. After it’s disconnected, it was very helpful to have two sets of hands to manipulate it. One of us pushed the heat shield up while the other person tilted the starter motor down toward the front of the car. This gives just enough room to pull the starter toward the front of the car and remove it from the engine. When you finally do that and have it out of the motor, it will “fall down” into the space that sits above the cooling lines. It should be a bit loose at that point, you can move it and orient it.

Now, if you look from the rear of the car along the exhaust pipe, there’s a silver steel bracket that is bolted above the cross member. I removed the 2 bolts holding that in place. You can’t actually remove the silver metal piece, it’s attached somehow under the crossmember, but removing the bolts allows you to push that metal bracket down and give you slightly more room to get the starter to come out.

With the silver bracket loosened and pulled down, there’s JUST ENOUGH room along the exhaust to get the starter out. The second set of hands gently held the cooling lines down while I passed them with the starter. I’m not going to kid you, it’s TIGHT and required a lot of fiddling and patience, you don’t want to just jam and slam it out, you can break the cooling lines. But it does require a bit of gentle force and persistence, it’s tight. But I didn’t have to drop the subframe or move the engine up, there is enough room if your patient. There’s a transmission sensor wire connection that ends up in the way. You have to move that connection to get it out that last mm. It’s pretty obvious, you’ll see it as you’re trying to pull the starter out, the edge of the starter will hit the wire connection if you leave it there, and at that point it’s finally almost out, so you can’t miss it because you’ll be getting very excited thinking it’s just about to pop out and wondering what it’s stuck on, lol.

The reverse puts it all back together. Get the starter back in place, reattach the main power line and wire harness. Fiddle the heat-shield back in place and hand start the nuts, then put them back on with the extension and knuckle over the A arm. Don’t forget to re-attach that metal bracket above the cross member that we moved down to get some more room. Bolt the 2 main starter bolts back in with extensions and knuckles. Then put the metal bottom plates back on (the transmission plate goes back on first).

All in all, doable. It’s not terrible, but it is one of those annoyingly tight areas where you’re going to cut up your hands and stuff. But compared to other things I’ve done (cough cough…like cutting my hood open with a reciprocal saw…cough cough) it’s not all that bad, just time consuming fiddling in the tight space.

Last edited by clinkinfo; 12-08-2017 at 05:26 PM.
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  #23  
Old 12-03-2017, 12:44 PM
ard ard is offline
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Thanks for that.
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  #24  
Old 12-04-2017, 01:58 PM
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Since you "struggled to find any good information specifically about the starter on the E70 4.8" you simply decided to ignore the post (#18) where I gave you a direct link to the TIS that states it's location and steps you through the R&R of the starter, specifically on a 4.8i E70. So glad I tried to help you.

BTW those are E-Torx, not Torx bolts that retain the starter.

Since you didn't state specifically in your final post, I am hoping the foolish recommendation I made that your starter appeared to be the problem (post #12) we are left to guess if it worked.

Nice write up on how you performed the R&R but would like to know if this was the ultimate solution.
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  #25  
Old 12-04-2017, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 740iS View Post
Since you "struggled to find any good information specifically about the starter on the E70 4.8" you simply decided to ignore the post (#18) where I gave you a direct link to the TIS that states it's location and steps you through the R&R of the starter, specifically on a 4.8i E70. So glad I tried to help you.

BTW those are E-Torx, not Torx bolts that retain the starter.

Since you didn't state specifically in your final post, I am hoping the foolish recommendation I made that your starter appeared to be the problem (post #12) we are left to guess if it worked.

Nice write up on how you performed the R&R but would like to know if this was the ultimate solution.
+1

My guess is we won't know for a while. There's a list of possible solutions that weren't considered prior to replacing the starter.

It amazes me that people won't pay attention to those with experience.
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  #26  
Old 12-05-2017, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 740iS View Post
Since you "struggled to find any good information specifically about the starter on the E70 4.8" you simply decided to ignore the post (#18) where I gave you a direct link to the TIS that states it's location and steps you through the R&R of the starter, specifically on a 4.8i E70. So glad I tried to help you.

BTW those are E-Torx, not Torx bolts that retain the starter.

Since you didn't state specifically in your final post, I am hoping the foolish recommendation I made that your starter appeared to be the problem (post #12) we are left to guess if it worked.

Nice write up on how you performed the R&R but would like to know if this was the ultimate solution.
Wish he stated what solved his problem instead of information on replacing the starter -_-
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  #27  
Old 12-05-2017, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackskibum View Post
+1

My guess is we won't know for a while. There's a list of possible solutions that weren't considered prior to replacing the starter.

It amazes me that people won't pay attention to those with experience.
The massive frustration one experiences when one's vehicle is out of service can certainly encourage someone to throw parts at a problem instead of doing a proper diagnosis. I have certainly been there, and the longer the car is out of service, the higher the propensity to throw parts at it. Especially when you're paying $125/hr plus for diagnosis; and possibly a rental car while it's down. Yet our OP could handle replacing a starter himself, and did so. I gather this fixed the problem or he would have said so. His write up was pretty good as well....although photos would have been nice.

Don't take it too hard that he followed his own path.
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  #28  
Old 12-05-2017, 01:48 PM
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I don't think any of us are taking it hard at all that he took his own path. My issue was more along the lines of his writing that no one helped him figure anything out when that was just not the case.

Not saying I wanted or needed a thank you for anything, but don't write that nobody offered any useful advice when you ended up doing what the advice stated.
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  #29  
Old 12-08-2017, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 740iS View Post
Since you "struggled to find any good information specifically about the starter on the E70 4.8" you simply decided to ignore the post (#18) where I gave you a direct link to the TIS that states it's location and steps you through the R&R of the starter, specifically on a 4.8i E70. So glad I tried to help you.

BTW those are E-Torx, not Torx bolts that retain the starter.

Since you didn't state specifically in your final post, I am hoping the foolish recommendation I made that your starter appeared to be the problem (post #12) we are left to guess if it worked.

Nice write up on how you performed the R&R but would like to know if this was the ultimate solution.

No, I actually located it before you posted it, but thanks anyway. Not sure what all the attitude is about. I was 80% confident where it was located without the parts diagram based on the other 8 cyl locations, but I just went out and started disassembling in that area to find it. It was obvious with the bottom plates removed.

That’s great, good clarification. You’re right, they are E-Torx, lest anyone try and use something else on them (good luck).

Sorry it wasn’t clear, I said the starter was broken in a followup post. Yes, after putting the new starter in the car started right up. It was definitely the problem. If you have similar symptoms and codes...there’s a good chance you have the same.
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  #30  
Old 12-08-2017, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Hack213 View Post
Wish he stated what solved his problem instead of information on replacing the starter -_-

Man the membership on this board is weird. I’m pretty sure in post #14 I clearly tell you my starter is dead.

Changing the starter immediately fixed the problem.
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