X5M E70 - Subwoofer (Invisible but not Stealthbox)

[Deftronix]

I have a JL 13" shallow mount sub (13TW5v2-4) with a custom cargo lid for amp rack and sub venting. It sounds really good, running 500W RMS to it. You want the sub as far back in the rear as you can get it.

Also have another breathable/grill insert that sits flush over the cutout so I can use the cargo area as normal when needed. I use an all weather mat back there usually so I dont have to worry about scratching anything up with very minimal effect on sound quality.

[master1917]

Wow this look great and sounds like theextra grill is the practical solution. Does it sound good with the weather mat?
I have weather mat and want to keep it there 100% of the time.

I will ask fir the wiring to accomidate 2 ootions fir a mobile audisin apbx 10 box - under the lid (no cut outs in my plans) and inside the trunk. If it doesnt sound giid under the lid with floor mat, I will be moving the box back and forth when I need the cargo space.

[master1917]

Update - I ended up buying Rockford Fosgate Prime 1200 Class D for USD 240 on Amazon as a value option. It came with a remote nob.

Now waiting for Audison APBX 10 box for CAD 450 + CAD 30 shipping + tax, which takes a while for the shop to get. They looked at my Rockford amp and said I will need a line out converter as my Rockford amp doesnt have it built in. They said depending on my amperage, which they will test during install, I may need a more expensive AudioControl LC2i which they sell for CAD 190 + tax. Like another amp! I just bought it on Amazon.com for USD 65 + duties and shipping comes to CAD 110. I read good reviews for the unit but was surprised I even needed one. I hope it will improve the final set up even if I didnt really need this exta device.

[master1917]

Update - as planned, had Audison APBX 10 - a sealed 10 inch 400 RMS sub installed 3 months ago. Its under the trunk lid in the wheel well compartment under plastic weather mat and no vibrations. Plenty of space left as I dont have a spare wheel in the well. Not sure I see major difference with this sub. May be my BMW underseat woofers are so good that I cant appreciate this sealed 10 inch)).? I think I would opt for larger diameter flat sub to fit in there if I did it again. May be its the lid, may be I need the second one next to it, as it will fit ok. Will second 10 inch make a difference? The Amp has 1300 RMS birth sheet at 1 OM so should be ok for 2 Audisons.

Nonetheless, when I crank up gain on amp, my heart vibrates and I feel headache - so something is working, just the base is not deep - may be songs I listen to.

[crystalworks]

^It's difficult for a 10" sub to give you a nice flat bass response in those lower frequencies, especially when comparing those frequencies to how nice and crisp a 10" sub in a sealed enclosure can hit the lower-mid and mid bass frequencies.. It can be done in a larger box with port tuning, but it's much easier to go with a reasonably powerful 12" sub in a 1.25ft^3 sealed enclosure.


I ran into the same type of issue you noted when I was installing in my convertible. Went with a small enclosure and a 10" sub that was matched ~200w RMS with an appropriate amp. Sounded good, but did not have enough to the low end to really fill out the music. I had to upgrade to a 900w amp and 600w RMS sub before I finally got enough low end punch to call it a day. And it still doesn't play as low as a quality 12" sub would. But it's still a nice sounding system for 95% of music, and is really nice for a convertible, which usually sounds like garbage.


Your setup is suffering more because it's being choked by the load floor. Have you listened to it with the floor off? Do you have pics of the setup? Would be curious to see how it's installed.

[master1917]

Thank you for your response. Agree should have gone with a 12". I was afraid of the rattle and need for custom box. Now have no rattle but... Now was thinking add second same Audison APBX 10 sub as it would be cheapest upgrade but not sure noticeable. My amp can pull two of this.
I asked for a long cord for the sub so that I can just pull it from the wheel well and leave it in the trunk. No big difference to me.

Re pictures. Happy to provide but my status on this forum doesnt allow it I believe. I think one must pay annual fee to do it.

[master1917]

So would adding second same sub of 400rms give me deeper bass you think? Amp is 1300 at 1 om so just the sub and instal cost of around CAD 500 total.

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by master1917

So would adding second same sub of 400rms give me deeper bass you think? Amp is 1300 at 1 om so just the sub and instal cost of around CAD 500 total.

You should be able to post pics, just use a hosting service like https://postimages.org/

You won't gain too much in terms of audible "volume" adding another 10". You might gain 3db(+/-) in the desired frequency range with a 400w RMS sub. I think you'd be better served going with a 500w 12" sub. More powerful if you have the space for the box as you have the amplifier headroom for a dual 2 ohm 12" woofer to give ~1300w (@14v?) to your sub.

One of the more important specs to look at is Xmax, or excursion. That tells you how far the cone can move. More movement tends to equal more depth and spl out of the driver, at least with a quality speaker. For example, in my vert I mentioned above, both drivers installed in the same enclosure and both subs from the same manufacturer; the first sub installed had an xmax of 12mm with 200w RMS. Not a lot. The current one installed is 18mm with 600w RMS. Still not a lot (the 12" sub I am going to install in my X5 has 30mm). But the extra 6mm combined with the extra power handling has given 10+ db according to my cheap meter. That's fairly significant. The setup sounds very nice, especially on rock, alternative, 80's, and anything with sharp punchy kick drum type bass. But even with the extra power and movement it still does not play as deep as a 12" sub of comparable quality though.


Hope this helps to demonstrate the lack of "impact" you might be perceiving. And I must admit, the e70 does have decent mids already...

[master1917]

Thank you. Will take some pictures and post the links.
Did you mean adding 12 inch sealed to the existing 10 and run both? Hope it is possible to have good sound. I have read a lot about complications etc with different sizes in one system.

My logic is that Adding another sub would be more cost effective than replacing the existing sub. Obviously sometimes you cut your losses and change everything.. hoping not to be my case.

Re movement range of the driver - I chose the Audison APBX 10 sealed box based on its ultra slim profile of 142mm. I wanted it to fit in the spare wheel well and have enough room between the driver and the lid so that it doesnt rattle the lid without cutouts. Was going to get Stealthbox, but there are reviews that it rattles the lid. I want to preserve rugged functionality and space of the trunk (no cutouts, no box in trunk, etc) so playing with many constraints. May just buy a proper size ported 12 inch and through it in the trunk. For now will pull mu Audison out and leave in trunk to gauge the difference. Wife will find out we have a sub in our truck)

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by master1917

Thank you. Will take some pictures and post the links.
Did you mean adding 12 inch sealed to the existing 10 and run both? Hope it is possible to have good sound. I have read a lot about complications etc with different sizes in one system...

No, don't mix the driver sizes. I did that with 2 12's and a 15 when I was young and you just get a lot of cancellation. I didn't know any better at the time.

If you are trying to maintain full trunk space and no cutouts, you are going to run into compromises for sure. A 12" sub might fit but will require a custom box, and then as you mention you might run into issues with the surround flexing enough to hit the cargo load floor. Having no cutout is killing the output of the sub though. I went through that with my BSW stealth setup in the E53. Before I put a cutout and grille into the side panel you could not get any real "impact" from the sub. Afterwards it was much better.

As for rattles... the only way you are going to defeat those is to do some sound deadening. Installing a sub into an area the manufacturer did not intend usually means there won't be adequate (or any) sound deadening in the area. There is some good (and cheap) stuff on Amazon. Only stuff I use anymore as it does 95% of Dynamat, but at like 20% of the cost.