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  #1  
Old 11-20-2019, 04:23 PM
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Code P0430 and Engine Stumbles When Accelerating

The wife's 2009 X5 3.0i is giving the P0430 code. It starts and idles fine but when you accelerate moderately to hard, or when there is a power demand like going uphill, it "stumbles", jerks and shakes until you back off of the accelerator. Anyone been down this road before with the E70? Can someone tell me how many O2 sensors it has, and where they are located? Also, where #1 cylinder is on these engines, so that i can identify Bank 2? I am thinking to start with the Bank 2 downstream, since I read that the P0430 code is for the Bank 2 sensor. I thought upstream sensors were much more likely to go out before downstream ones. But, I read somewhere that a CAT efficiency code like the P0430 points more toward a downstream sensor. A little extra brain power from you guys would be appreciated. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 11-20-2019, 09:32 PM
ard ard is offline
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Miles?

Original O2 sensors?


Classic failure mode for cat efficiency is for a motor to run very rich, which 'swamps' the O2 sensors and causes them to think the cat is bad. Saw a TON of cat replacements on the S62s for this, as those motors had aggressive tuning.


I dont know where those are on your car. Somewhere underneath. I mean get a jack and some wrenches and have at it. Honestly if the O2s are old, replace them all.


But I am not sure o2s are the cause of your driveability issues. A air leak in the intake... or a bad vanos solenoid...or something impacting timing/advance...could all cause rich running, with sluggish responses.


Can you pull your AFRs? (Fuel rations, long and short term fuel trims)? Invest the 150 in a decent reader, it may be worth the effort...


GL
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Old 11-21-2019, 09:51 AM
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Mileage 124,707. I bought this for her 5 years ago with I think about 91,000 on it. As far as I know, they are original sensors. I am thinking a timing issue would trigger other codes, and maybe a P0420 as well, but who knows? When I say stumbles, I mean it jerks fairly hard when giving it the gas to go uphill, etc.

Lost my Veepeak reader while scanning a buddy's car a while back, have another on order from Amazon. Supposed to be here Friday. Then I can get more data.

Had thoughts of just going ahead and ordering O2 sensors, but I don't know yet how many there are on this rig. Looks like the name brands are running over $40 a pop on eBay. Guess I'm lucky they aren't more. Also like to know where they are at so I don't have to remove more things than I have to, just to look for them.

Thanks, I'll post more data when I pull it.
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Old 11-21-2019, 11:31 AM
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I'm unfamiliar e veepeak. You want a reader that can decode BMW specific codes, not just OBD.

On timing issues... Your conclusion is only true for large, persistent errors. Slight timing lags due to sluggish vanos (for example) due to worn o rings or sludge, can lead to issues only at some rpm ranges...enough to cause issues but not trigger their own code. I AM NOT CONCLUDING THIS IS YOUR CASE, ,but keep in mind it can be more nuanced.

Fwiw
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Old 11-21-2019, 02:13 PM
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I was steered to the Veepeak adapter and OBDFusion app four years ago by jfoj, on this site. Seems to work pretty well with my iPhone. Don't remember if it knows BMW-specific codes, but as long as it just reads them, I can look them up on the interweb. I remember it gives fuel trim data, temperatures, barometric pressure, rpm, throttle position, fuel rate, calculated load, MAF rate, timing degrees, O2 sensor voltage, and all that jazz, so maybe there will be something there to gives some clues for the diagnosis.
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Old 11-21-2019, 07:34 PM
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Sounds good.


However, the issue with "BMW Specific" codes is not the words that are associated with a numeric code; it can be the code ITSELF. Youd like to think a code is a code- a number- and all readers will give you that. However there are BMW codes that will not show up on some readers, defaulting to a different general fault code- not the "manufacturer specific BMW code" you might want. Just FYI...dont think that is the case with yours
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Old 11-23-2019, 12:54 AM
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Well, got my Veepeak OBD II reader, and got some data. Not sure what to make of it yet. It hasn't fully come back to me yet how to operate all the menus. I'm wondering about these long term and short term fuel trim values and how they are different for Bank 1 and Bank 2.

Also, I notice the ignition timing bounces around every time I hit the refresh on the reader. Sometimes 0, sometimes 1.5 or 2.0, sometimes 5.0 or 7.0 degrees, all while fully warmed up and at idle. Think that would be normal?

Thoughts, anyone? Thanks!
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Old 11-23-2019, 06:00 PM
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Well, at least so far I have learned there is such a thing as wide ranged O2 sensors, or "air/fuel sensors". It threw me for a loop at first that my OBDII software said that the O2 readings were not available. The above data lists voltages for the downstream O2 sensors, but not for the upstream. After watching a few YouTubes, I realize that my upstream sensors are the wide ranged. The OBD Fusion software displays current and a fuel trim % for those, instead of a voltage. Still scratching my head to figure out how I can make a diagnosis out of all this....
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Old 11-25-2019, 07:24 PM
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So, I suckered and joined one of those "ask a professional" websites ($5 for a 7 day trial). Here is what I got:

Bank 2 cat doesn't really do anything to need change. It's just there for emissions. I recommend do a tune up on your car, new plugs and fuel system flush and new air filter if needed. Please let me know if you need further assistance.

Forgive me if I'm a bit underwhelmed. Seems to me like Bank 2 cat does the same job as Bank 1 cat, except it's on the other side of the car/engine. It may just be there for emissions but if it is off it can complicate engine management, right?

I saw another answer on that site for the P0430 problem, where the BMW mechanic said pretty much without hesitation to just replace the Bank 2 cat, and implied that it wouldn't be an O2 sensor since there were no O2 codes triggered. Not so sure about that, either.
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  #10  
Old 11-26-2019, 12:17 AM
ard ard is offline
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been traveling, will look at this tonight, give you some thoughts. And yes, $5 pissed away
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