Home Forums Articles How To's FAQ Register
Go Back   Xoutpost.com > BMW SAV Forums > X5 (E70) Forum
Fluid Motor Union
User Name
Password
Member List Premier Membership Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Xoutpost server transfer and maintenance is occurring....
Xoutpost is currently undergoing a planned server migration.... stay tuned for new developments.... sincerely, the management


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 02-12-2020, 12:52 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 40
n64456 is on a distinguished road
My bridge seal had cracked in 2 different places, and was causing the pressure to bleed out the side between the main body and the mech. It started when I tried to drive away from my driveway. It revved a bit, jerked into motion, and threw a "malfunction warning soon after I drove away. Turned around to park it, and it wouldn't go into reverse, or drive after I stopped. It would just go back into "P" when I tried to drive away again. Shop was able to get it moving by revving it a bit immediately after putting it in gear ("D" or "R"). thats how I got it into my garage to do the tranny work. Shop didn't want to mess with it... They just pulled down the codes and said tranny was toast. Figured I had nothing to lose but a few hundred bucks to try and replace the mech seals and put new pan and filter on it. Its an E60 with 128K miles. Fluid for ZFs is pricy, about $20/L. If you decide to do this, PM me if you have any "Q".

Also, if you put in a used tranny from another car in yours, I've been told there are issues with the TCM being VIN locked, so you may have to transfer your TCM from your current mech to the new one. It unbolts from the valve body and can be moved over. Might be a great time to replace the solenoids while its apart as well. I was surprised how clean my pan was when pulling it; fluid was dirty, but no sludge or shiny crap in bottom of pan. These trannies seem to be pretty stout, but the plastic/rubber parts, and electrical solenoids are the weak link and cause lots of problems

Last edited by n64456; 02-12-2020 at 01:03 PM.
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links

  #12  
Old 02-12-2020, 12:52 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 306
smassey321 is on a distinguished road
Just read your latest post and it sounds like you are just in limp mode. From your first post, it sounded like you were undrivable. Limp mode can be caused by minor issues.

What codes did the first shop get? You can send them to ZF and they will reply with their thoughts.

https://www.zf.com/corporate/en_de/m...-inquiries.jsp
__________________
2009 X5d w/ AD, CIC/Combox
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-12-2020, 01:09 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 40
n64456 is on a distinguished road
If tranny truly is toast; here's an option I found:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Remanufactu...YAAOSwhY1d-oTL
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:46 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: X5world
Posts: 21
Mdickey is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by smassey321 View Post
Just read your latest post and it sounds like you are just in limp mode. From your first post, it sounded like you were undrivable. Limp mode can be caused by minor issues.

What codes did the first shop get? You can send them to ZF and they will reply with their thoughts.

https://www.zf.com/corporate/en_de/m...-inquiries.jsp
Codes are P2763, P0967 and the BMW code is 4E3A. I believe all are pressure related codes and redacted from the report is this language that I referenced in my OP..."the Mechatronic Module (Transmission Control/Valve body
Module) has failed causing a failure of the Transmission Assembly"

Any thoughts based on those codes? I will send to ZF as well. Thank you for the link.
__________________
2011 X5 35iX
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-12-2020, 06:16 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: X5world
Posts: 21
Mdickey is on a distinguished road
So I submitted the following question to ZF through the link provided above and asked the following:

Hello. My car has check engine light on and a separate transmission malfunction warning on the car navigation screen. The car is in limp mode and will not go into reverse. Engine codes are P2763, P0967 and 4E3A (BMW code). 143,000 miles on the odometer. The shop is telling me there is a failure of the Mechatronic unit that has caused failure of the transmission assembly and recommends transmission replacement. Any thoughts or guidance you can provide based on codes and diagnosis form the shop would be helpful.

And I received back the following response within the hour:

I would check the fluid level and quality. If the fluid is burnt and/or low, a transmission replacement is probably necessary. If the fluid is clean and full then the failure is probably a result of pressure regulators gone bad. The codes lead to pressure regulator failure.

The shop told me the fluid is very dark (black). I am assuming that means it is burnt. I'll check it myself this weekend to verify.
__________________
2011 X5 35iX
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-12-2020, 10:39 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 40
n64456 is on a distinguished road
Very dark doesn't necessarily mean burnt. Just as engine oil gets dark quickly, the same thing happens with tranny fluid, it just takes longer. As it absorbs the wear of the clutches, its gets darker. With those being "pressure" codes; I'd check those seals between the mech body and the trans itself. There are 4 tube seals, and a bridge seal.
The electronic solenoid valves can also be replaced when you have the mech out to replace those seals. Solenoids will run another $350-400. You will end up putting around 7-8L of fresh fluid in the trans doing this servicing. That replaces about 1/2-2/3 of the existing fluid, but doesnt flush the system. I wouldnt recommend fully flushing it with that many miles on it.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-13-2020, 03:31 AM
ard ard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sierra Foothills, California
Posts: 5,809
ard is on a distinguished road
Op- how often was the fluid changed over the cars life?? How old is the fluid in there now?

If you say 143k, You will come to know how BMW gets away with “lifetime fluid”... Amazingly that fluid has in fact lasted the lifetime of the transmission,....
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-13-2020, 05:38 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Man Jose, CA
Posts: 22
robinasu is on a distinguished road
If you start playing with it, Mercon SP fluid might be a good idea as it's similar to the ZF stuff and much less expensive. I'm sure there are other cheap LG6 options for troubleshooting. Or just use some NAPA stuff since you will trash what's in there anyway. If you are successful, you can replace it later.

If you have a low fluid level the mechatronic unit pressure will fluctuate as the under-filled fluid sloshes around and the mechatronic fluid pump loses its prime. This happened to me after I under-filled by mistake. When the mechatronic loses pressure the clutches can release spontaneously and the planetary gear set goes out of control- not good. Limp mode will be triggered at some point soon after. You can also look at the adaption values. They may or may not tell you something. If one or more is +300 that could be bad, but the fluid could also be shot.

The only way to check how much you might be low is to monitor how much you can add through the fill hole on the side of the transmission (while engine is running <--critical) at 35C to 40C. If you crack the fill plug on the side (not the drain on the plastic pan) while the engine is OFF and no fluid comes out, it's for sure low. None/little should come out when the engine is on and the fluid is cold. At 35C to 40C fluid temp, there should be some drips.

I would start there as it only costs you a quart or two and some time. It will also warm you up for dropping the pan and changing the seals if you go that route. Fluid does vaporize normally over time. Hopefully you are just super low! Replacing the mechatronic unit is not hard, just messy. I think Sonnax has a mechatronic rebuild kit, too, if you are up for it.

Did the shop drain a bunch from the drain or check it out through the fill plug?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-13-2020, 11:09 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 306
smassey321 is on a distinguished road
If the fluid is burnt, it should smell burnt. It is tough to tell because ZF fluid has an odd smell to begin with. As I read this thread, many of the comments pertain to the ZF 6 speed which may or may not be appropriate for your 8 speed. Your 8 speed is not as easy to fix. Not many have gone bad so info is harder to find. Individual parts are harder to find and also more expensive. I only found one site selling solenoids and they were $800.

Your original post mentioned the shop said the mechatronic unit was bad. Based on the code, you may have an issue with just the solenoids and or valve body. Shops may call this the complete solenoid/valve body/mechatronics the "mechatronic unit". If your mechatronic electronics module is still good, you can remove it from the valve body and swap it into a used transmission. This option does not require any advanced programming. Programming is more complex as the online vendors focus on F series for the 8 speed.

If the fluid is not burnt, ask your shop if the mechatronics electronics are indeed bad. Your shop may not answer this in a useful way. Many will only swap the complete assembly and thus they will answer "bad" when only one part of the assembly is bad. If mechatronics electronics are good, it is pretty low risk to get an eBay transmission and swap the mechatronics electronics.

Swapping the mechatronics electronics module is very easy. The entire valve body/mechatronics assembly is removed from the pan area with a few bolts. Then the electronics can be separated from the valve body with a few more bolts. Watch the first couple of minutes of each video below.


https://youtu.be/61egGJh4m3s?t=53
https://youtu.be/LJpbVXyfacI?t=12
__________________
2009 X5d w/ AD, CIC/Combox
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-13-2020, 03:26 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: X5world
Posts: 21
Mdickey is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinasu View Post
If you start playing with it, Mercon SP fluid might be a good idea as it's similar to the ZF stuff and much less expensive. I'm sure there are other cheap LG6 options for troubleshooting. Or just use some NAPA stuff since you will trash what's in there anyway. If you are successful, you can replace it later.

If you have a low fluid level the mechatronic unit pressure will fluctuate as the under-filled fluid sloshes around and the mechatronic fluid pump loses its prime. This happened to me after I under-filled by mistake. When the mechatronic loses pressure the clutches can release spontaneously and the planetary gear set goes out of control- not good. Limp mode will be triggered at some point soon after. You can also look at the adaption values. They may or may not tell you something. If one or more is +300 that could be bad, but the fluid could also be shot.

The only way to check how much you might be low is to monitor how much you can add through the fill hole on the side of the transmission (while engine is running <--critical) at 35C to 40C. If you crack the fill plug on the side (not the drain on the plastic pan) while the engine is OFF and no fluid comes out, it's for sure low. None/little should come out when the engine is on and the fluid is cold. At 35C to 40C fluid temp, there should be some drips.

I would start there as it only costs you a quart or two and some time. It will also warm you up for dropping the pan and changing the seals if you go that route. Fluid does vaporize normally over time. Hopefully you are just super low! Replacing the mechatronic unit is not hard, just messy. I think Sonnax has a mechatronic rebuild kit, too, if you are up for it.

Did the shop drain a bunch from the drain or check it out through the fill plug?
Can you confirm that the correct process is 1. Run engine until transmission fluid temperature is between 35C and 45C. 2. Turn engine off 3. Crack the fill plug on the side while the fluid temperature is still between 35C and 45C 4. If no fluid comes out remove plug and run engine and add fluid until it pours out. 5. Replace plug
__________________
2011 X5 35iX
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:46 AM.
vBulletin, Copyright 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
2017 Xoutpost.com. All rights reserved. Xoutpost.com is a private enthusiast site not associated with BMW AG.
The BMW name, marks, M stripe logo, and Roundel logo as well as X3, X5 and X6 designations used in the pages of this Web Site are the property of BMW AG.
This web site is not sponsored or affiliated in any way with BMW AG or any of its subsidiaries.