So BMW made it a little bigger and ......

[benathon]

The interior is amazing...

[Pentium]

yeah right I totaly agree with XX3!!!

man u r damn right

[lionkang]

Originally Posted by xx3

How about a entirely new body. Entire new suspension and an entire new technological system. Better safety and more powerful engines that use less gasoline.

Entirely new?? Give me a break, what is entirely new about this type of suspension. Cadillac has been using magnetic liquid shocks for almost 2 years now. Better safety? I hope you meant marginally better safety. The E53 is already one of the safest SUV's out there I feel like I'm driving a baby tank. So what did they do this time around? They put a little more steel here and there, BFD.

Originally Posted by xx3

Lots of things. The entirely new electronics sub-system. DSC III. A 3rd row seat. Daytime Angel eyes. Cornering fogs. Dampening suspension. Flexray.

All of these things could have been added 7 years ago, the technology has always been there. Stability control and every other example you've brought up have been around for over a decade or could have been engineered in the previous generation. Flex ray hmm, so now BMW is giving the wires that attach to the sensors a name...

Originally Posted by xx3

You are 100% wrong on this. The E70 introduces many innovations into the SAV category and raises the bar higher. If BMW was truely playing the game, they would have simply given us an E60 (what they did with the X3 - rehashed an E46) and what they did with the E53 (we simply got a rehashed E39). In this case BMW has introduced many new technologies and innovations on a car that is supposed to be based on another platform, but in reality isn't.

If you're going to attack my post, dont use a straw man to do it. I never said that this X5 does not raise the bar, I merely asked the question "what major benefits is this truly bringing". The E70 is not an "entirely new" platform, I dont know where you got that from. This is just a slightly larger E53 chassis. Whatever you use to justify the purchase is fine by me.

Originally Posted by xx3

While this might be true for other companies. BMW has not been building SUV's off of pick-up truck platforms or standing still on innovation. I think you classify BMW unfairly.

I classify them unfairly? To some degree every manfucturer sandbags. What is the difference in cost between a 4.4 and 4.8, other than displacement all things being equal. Last I checked steel was still sold for around $600 a metric ton. So a 4.8 has cylinders that are about 8% larger, big deal. Why was there a 4.4, why didnt they just make a leap from the late 90's 4.0 V8 straight to a 4.8 or larger? The original 3.0 I6 w/out valvetronic just a slightly bored out 2.8. The 2.8 I6 was used for almost a decade. Theoretically BMW has gotten almost 20 years out of the "2.8".

Originally Posted by xx3

The combustion engine is far from being mastered. Again you want to criticize BMW, but it is they who come up with some of the greatest new ideas in the past century in terms of both power and fuel economy. Vanos, Valvetronic & piezo are all examples.

Variable valve timing has been in cars for well over a decade. Instead of trying to make a heavy car more efficient, why not make just make the car lighter? Engineering all these marvels for efficiency and not decreasing the vehicle weight is like putting lipstick on a pig.

Originally Posted by xx3

Don't like it... Then don't buy it. Vote with your wallet. You have every right to do so.

I am definitely one to vote with me feet. I'm not giving BMW my money, I'm going to buy it used...

Originally Posted by xx3

It took 50 years for us to go from analog to HD. So good luck waiting for that hydrogen car.

Who said I'm waiting for a hydrogen car? Hydrogen though greener has nothing to do better efficiency and the infrastructure is far from there. Most engines nowadays can run hydrogen with minor modifcation. If you keep in mind the open bribery from corporations (oil and energy industry specifically) that goes on within our government it's easy to see that it's going to be a very long time before we see hydrogen.

Originally Posted by xx3

Lol. This is absolutely out in the clouds. You expect BMW to make the E70 lighter then the E60 it is built on?! BMW didn't even have to make as many advances ontop of the E60 to sell as many cars as they will with the new E70..!

You said before that the E70 is entirely new, but now you're contradicting yourself by saying its based off the E60 which is in turn just a slightly revised E39, which is just a slightly revised version of the previous generation. The X5 is based off of the E39 platform too. Stamp this thing out of aluminum and it could weigh less than the current E60.
Who's head is truly in the clouds?

Originally Posted by xx3

I laugh again. You havn't read the press release either.

I did read the press release. It's the same 2 engines they've had out for almost a year and a half now.

Originally Posted by xx3

Perhaps the only part of your post that I agree with. The X5 should come with a manual.

I'm glad we can agree on that

Originally Posted by xx3

It has voice activation. Even E53 (if specced right) can have voice activation ! Understand what your criticizing, before you criticize !

Yes, I know the E53 has voice navigation, I probably didnt word myself correctly. What I meant was how limited they were to the simplest of commands, I cant even input an address, wtf?! Have you ever used Acura's voice system? Leaps and bounds ahead my friend.

Originally Posted by xx3

A touch screen is never optimal when you consider screen placement (high in the dash) as well as ergonomics (becomes too far away arm-legthwise when you have to shield it from the sun).

I can agree with this statement. There are some cons to a touch screen.

Originally Posted by xx3

Why not a butler and someone to shine my shoes? Oh, while were smoking dope, how about retractable wings so that I can fly !



There is no such thing as self piloting cars... Maybe you are talking about Active Cruise Control + braking which premiers on the E70 as Dynamic Cruise Control.

I hope you meant, " There are no such thing as self piloting cars". You my friend have obviously not read enough, Honda has developed the technology and is polishing it up as we speak, Mercedes is getting there.

Originally Posted by xx3

Maybe if we didn't have people on crack in this country, we wouldn't have crazy lawsuits (or crazy E70 rants on this board either) and BMW would give us a nav system without an accept screen. If they didn't you know some bozo would crash while playing with nav and then sue BMW for not telling him he couldn't play with his navigation system while driving !

I definitely know and understand why the American version has an accept screen.

Originally Posted by xx3

Again, do your research. Mazda has said on repeated accounts that they would be fine if BMW used the name MX-5. BMW will never make an M SUV because it simply will not perform to the guidelines that make up a BMW M car. When BMW makes an M car, they make an M car through and through, unlike AMG who throws badges on any MB it can find in Stuttgart.

I posted that part with tongue in cheek, and never say never. People in the 90's said BMW would never build an SUV. If the consumer demands things, companies will build them.

Originally Posted by xx3

Also, its a way for manufacturers to create more buzz for a product line. BMW will wait until the initial buzz off of the X5 wears (in around 2 years) and then re-ignite everyone's interest in the X5 by offering a new top of the line model.

and you say BMW does not sand bag??

Originally Posted by xx3

Ok you dish on the E70 the entire thread, but then hope you can have one in a few years...

I think you meant dissed... yes, I will upgrade my current X5 in a few more years after I've got almost 200k on my X5. There comes a time when something is used up and I will definitely consider the E70 the next go around. It still is IMO one of the best SUV's out there.

Originally Posted by xx3

It seems to me like you wanted more from the E70's debut. A lot more. More like BMW was supposed to reinvent the car.

Adding a PC that would allow for a world of options (custom sound, internet, OBD) is not too much to ask for. Neither is a vehicle that weighs significantly less. Jaguar has been stamping some of their models in Aluminum to save weight for awhile, why cant BMW? Your low expectations are the reason why auto manufacturers continue to sandbag.

Originally Posted by xx3

You have to remember that the E70 is/was supposed to be an evolutionary car - as it follows BMW's strict new model pattern. (One gen of revolution, one of evolution - E70 is 2nd gen, hence the evolution). However with the E70 I think they have broken the mold. So many new technological advances have debuted on the E70, as well as a design which is I think quite different then the outgoing model (they resemble yes, but very different indeed).

well does it resemble the E53 or is it very different, which one is it?...

Originally Posted by xx3

You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect it.

Sorry that the E70's launch was so disappointing for you...

The E70's lauch was not so dissapointing, it just didn't do for SUV's what the E53 did.

Again I like the new X5 I really do, and in a few years after I've driven my current X5 into retirement, I will most definitely consider it. (Those leather door handles will at least ensure that my door handles dont peel )

[doctodd]

too much time on your hands

T

[peakpro]

I found both sides of tha argument very interesting...thanks for taking the time to post....

[xx3]

Originally Posted by lionkang

Entirely new?? Give me a break, what is entirely new about this type of suspension. Cadillac has been using magnetic liquid shocks for almost 2 years now. Better safety? I hope you meant marginally better safety. The E53 is already one of the safest SUV's out there I feel like I'm driving a baby tank. So what did they do this time around? They put a little more steel here and there, BFD.

How about an entirely new front suspension with a double-wishbone (a first in an SUV). Safety has improved with actual curtains for HPS, (rather then the small tubes the E53 has now). Also the E70 has runflats (another first for SUV's).

All of these things could have been added 7 years ago, the technology has always been there. Stability control and every other example you've brought up have been around for over a decade or could have been engineered in the previous generation. Flex ray hmm, so now BMW is giving the wires that attach to the sensors a name...

Your contradicting yourself. DSC already exists on the outgoing model. DSC III just means that new features like hill start assist, brake fade compensation, etc... have been added. None of those technologies existed 7 years ago, and actually premiered around 8 months ago.

Flexray is a huge leap forward in terms of car electronics. Huge huge increase in bandwidth and messages sent across the in-car network are rated. So on your E53 a brake warning from your sensor would have gotten the same priority as a washer fluid low error. Since older electrical systems are one-way, and wait until the transmission is complete. Flex-ray allows multiple channels of communication and rating. So emerency information (like DSC sensory information) can be pre-rated and get the go-ahead before other information that needs to share the line.

Neither of these could have been engineered into the E53 because they did not exist at the time!!!

If you're going to attack my post, dont use a straw man to do it. I never said that this X5 does not raise the bar, I merely asked the question "what major benefits is this truly bringing". The E70 is not an "entirely new" platform, I dont know where you got that from. This is just a slightly larger E53 chassis. Whatever you use to justify the purchase is fine by me.

Well the way in which you phrase your post makes it seem that BMW is providing us with such a downer for the E70. Sorry it won't be the futuristic, hydrogen power-train with in-flight capability you've been dreaming of.

I never said that the E70 was an entirely new platform (please quote me). However, I did say that it was a platform with significant upgrades from its base (which is the E60), unlike the E53 (which really just was a propped up E39).

You incorrectly assume that I am justifying a future purchase of mine. I actually will not be purchasing an E70, far from it. I'm waiting for the E92 in the flesh to decide between the E85 and the E92.

I classify them unfairly? To some degree every manfucturer sandbags. What is the difference in cost between a 4.4 and 4.8, other than displacement all things being equal. Last I checked steel was still sold for around $600 a metric ton. So a 4.8 has cylinders that are about 8% larger, big deal. Why was there a 4.4, why didnt they just make a leap from the late 90's 4.0 V8 straight to a 4.8 or larger? The original 3.0 I6 w/out valvetronic just a slightly bored out 2.8. The 2.8 I6 was used for almost a decade. Theoretically BMW has gotten almost 20 years out of the "2.8".

Welcome to capitalism. Anyone and everyone does sandbag to a certain degree. However, BMW is far from the worst in the industry. (in my last post I was comparing BMW to the big 3 and their SUV/pickup platform sharing techniques which I find are much worse then boring out an engine size and selling a bigger size).

The I6 is far from being 20 years old. You can stretch that maybe BMW got a good 10 years out of the 2.8 and its bigger brother the 3.0, but saying that it is a 20 year old design is false and erroneous.

Still the 3.0i did have significant changes from its 2.8 brother.

Variable valve timing has been in cars for well over a decade. Instead of trying to make a heavy car more efficient, why not make just make the car lighter? Engineering all these marvels for efficiency and not decreasing the vehicle weight is like putting lipstick on a pig.

I agree, and so does BMW. Take a look at the many different plastic composites and the use of metals within BMW's lineup. Take a look at the Z22 concept. BMW's cutting edge work in carbon fiber. Need I go on? Your simply ranting about a problem the industry has, and pegging it on BMW - which seems to be the only one in the industry who actually cares and is trying to make a difference.

Who said I'm waiting for a hydrogen car? Hydrogen though greener has nothing to do better efficiency and the infrastructure is far from there. Most engines nowadays can run hydrogen with minor modifcation. If you keep in mind the open bribery from corporations (oil and energy industry specifically) that goes on within our government it's easy to see that it's going to be a very long time before we see hydrogen.

I am well aware of the hurdles that still exist in the production of a hydrogen car. I post many articles on X5world about this topic. I was simply poking fun of how much you wanted from the E70. Something so revolutionary. Something never done before... Perhaps a hydrogen car struck a chord and made you aware of your demands which are 'out of this world'.

You said before that the E70 is entirely new, but now you're contradicting yourself by saying its based off the E60 which is in turn just a slightly revised E39, which is just a slightly revised version of the previous generation. The X5 is based off of the E39 platform too. Stamp this thing out of aluminum and it could weigh less than the current E60.
Who's head is truly in the clouds?

Quote me on it. I never said it was entirely new. It is based on the E60, which isn't a slightly revised E39. Far from it. The E60 uses many aluminum for its front end, as well as very different bonding techniques.

BMW isn't going to give the E70 something that the E60 has. You still have not realized this ! Its not the way the industry works !

Yes, I know the E53 has voice navigation, I probably didnt word myself correctly. What I meant was how limited they were to the simplest of commands, I cant even input an address, wtf?! Have you ever used Acura's voice system? Leaps and bounds ahead my friend.

Ok you didn't word yourself correctly. Now you make sense. I have used Acura's voice system. I was simply pointing out that BMW did have voice activation...

I hope you meant, " There are no such thing as self piloting cars". You my friend have obviously not read enough, Honda has developed the technology and is polishing it up as we speak, Mercedes is getting there.

Show me a Honda that I can buy today that drives itself. I could write you 10 pages on all the BMW tech that is still in labs.

I definitely know and understand why the American version has an accept screen.

Then why complain about it, if you know the answer?!?

I posted that part with tongue in cheek, and never say never. People in the 90's said BMW would never build an SUV. If the consumer demands things, companies will build them.

Well I guess we'll just have to wait and see. BMW did build M prototypes of the E53, they just never made production. BMW has also admitted to building prototypes of the E70, we'll see if it makes it into production.

Adding a PC that would allow for a world of options (custom sound, internet, OBD) is not too much to ask for.

You want BMW to premier technology on its middle tier SUV. Maybe if you were asking for these features on a 7, I could say, well we can hope. But on an X5, or an E70, you've been setting yourself up for failure.

Neither is a vehicle that weighs significantly less. Jaguar has been stamping some of their models in Aluminum to save weight for awhile, why cant BMW? Your low expectations are the reason why auto manufacturers continue to sandbag.

Jaguar has, so has Audi with the A2 & A8. Didn't do your homework this time either. Jaguar is going to drop aluminium for the next version of the XJ8. So is Audi for the A2. Sure aluminium is great, but the cost/advantage ratio is too low for most to follow.

BMW instead takes a different approach, use aluminum in key areas of the car in order to keep legendary 50:50 balance. Something Audi (even with its aluminum chassis' still fails to do).

My expectations aren't low, they are REAL and based on REALITY. I'm not walking around kidding myself and thinking that if I whine enough that BMW will do as I please. Wake up and smell the coffee...

well does it resemble the E53 or is it very different, which one is it?...

I was talking about BMW's pattern, not about it resembling the E53. As for BMW's pattern, I am still torn. Perhaps the E70 ushers BMW into a new era where it will not follow its traditional revolution/evolution pattern.

The E70's lauch was not so dissapointing, it just didn't do for SUV's what the E53 did.

And no SUV/SAV will ever change the market in the same way as the E53 did until the SUV idea is tackled in a new way.

---

Originally Posted by doctdd

too much time on your hands

T

Perhaps, its just posts like these that get me angry and motivate me to spend my time. Its infuriating When people incorrectly accuse or blame people or organizations without doing their homework and knowing the facts.

[xymox]

Great post!

[lionkang]

Originally Posted by xx3

How about an entirely new front suspension with a double-wishbone (a first in an SUV). Safety has improved with actual curtains for HPS, (rather then the small tubes the E53 has now). Also the E70 has runflats (another first for SUV's).

Double wishbone suspensions have been out for a long time, its like clamoring over the first sunroof to be added to an SUV, or the first SUV with an Ipod hook up. While I didnt know that the HPS had been upgraded from tubes to curtains, it's still not that big of a deal. Run flats? I can go to tirerack and buy them for my X5 if I want, whats the big deal? And while these are standard now, everyone with a brain knows that nothing is free. So in essence BMW is now charging customers for run flats.

Originally Posted by xx3

Your contradicting yourself. DSC already exists on the outgoing model. DSC III just means that new features like hill start assist, brake fade compensation, etc... have been added. None of those technologies existed 7 years ago, and actually premiered around 8 months ago.

Flexray is a huge leap forward in terms of car electronics. Huge huge increase in bandwidth and messages sent across the in-car network are rated. So on your E53 a brake warning from your sensor would have gotten the same priority as a washer fluid low error. Since older electrical systems are one-way, and wait until the transmission is complete. Flex-ray allows multiple channels of communication and rating. So emerency information (like DSC sensory information) can be pre-rated and get the go-ahead before other information that needs to share the line.

Neither of these could have been engineered into the E53 because they did not exist at the time!!!

Although I do think that the above features are somewhat useful, I dont feel that they are significant. None of these are as significant as the invention of stability control, and side/curtain airbags imo. As far as flex ray goes, I and I'm sure most readers would agree that the reaction speed of ABS, stability control, etc etc and anything tied with our electrical system is adequate.

Originally Posted by xx3

Well the way in which you phrase your post makes it seem that BMW is providing us with such a downer for the E70. Sorry it won't be the futuristic, hydrogen power-train with in-flight capability you've been dreaming of.

Ah the magic of the internet. Trying to read between the lines and guess motives....It may seem that way, but if you heard me tell you this in person you might feel differently. I definitely dont think this X5 is a downer, its just not what the E53 was to SUV's. I feel that there were no "significantly" new additions to the X5 series.

Originally Posted by xx3

Welcome to capitalism. Anyone and everyone does sandbag to a certain degree. However, BMW is far from the worst in the industry. (in my last post I was comparing BMW to the big 3 and their SUV/pickup platform sharing techniques which I find are much worse then boring out an engine size and selling a bigger size).

I can agree with this, BMW is far from being the worse. But for the money we owners spend theyre far from being the best too. (Our cars handle really well though)

Originally Posted by xx3

The I6 is far from being 20 years old. You can stretch that maybe BMW got a good 10 years out of the 2.8 and its bigger brother the 3.0, but saying that it is a 20 year old design is false and erroneous.

Still the 3.0i did have significant changes from its 2.8 brother.

I tried to word this response as to avoid confusion. The 3.0 from what I've read is basically the 2.8 w/ variable valve timing bored out to 3.0 and hence a slight increase in hp is noted due to displacement. I dont know of any significant changes, but if you know of them I'd love to hear (seriously)

Originally Posted by xx3

I agree, and so does BMW. Take a look at the many different plastic composites and the use of metals within BMW's lineup. Take a look at the Z22 concept. BMW's cutting edge work in carbon fiber. Need I go on? Your simply ranting about a problem the industry has, and pegging it on BMW - which seems to be the only one in the industry who actually cares and is trying to make a difference.

Once again more confusion, while I agree, yes that was a rant. I am chastising BMW for participating. This is not a Kia and this is not Ford. We pay over $10000 more than the cost of a similiarly if not better equipped Lexus or Infiniti. Maybe I am asking for too much. For $10000 more I dont feel its unreasonable to ask for a PC or something signifcant.

Originally Posted by xx3

I am well aware of the hurdles that still exist in the production of a hydrogen car. I post many articles on X5world about this topic. I was simply poking fun of how much you wanted from the E70. Something so revolutionary. Something never done before... Perhaps a hydrogen car struck a chord and made you aware of your demands which are 'out of this world'.

What is so revolutionary about say... launching with a hybrid or even a diesel or a hybrid diesel? Since the 1999 inception, BMW has had a long time to work on things. The technology can be licensed from Toyota. Hybrids, while useless on the highway are wonderful in the city and they add instant torque.

What is so out of this world to ask for an SUV to be stamped in aluminum? Or just for the SUV to be a great deal lighter? Why is it impractical to have an in car PC? I pay for a $50k+ SUV. I dont feel any of the above, which would be major advancements in SUV's are impractical in any way. If the consumer demands things the autmakers will respond. If the consumer keeps purchasing, the auto makers have no reason to make things signifcantly better.

Originally Posted by xx3

Quote me on it. I never said it was entirely new. It is based on the E60, which isn't a slightly revised E39. Far from it. The E60 uses many aluminum for its front end, as well as very different bonding techniques.

BMW isn't going to give the E70 something that the E60 has. You still have not realized this ! Its not the way the industry works !

Originally Posted by xx3

Show me a Honda that I can buy today that drives itself. I could write you 10 pages on all the BMW tech that is still in labs.

I will show you one in a few years and it will be on a sub $30k Honda. Where as the same year X5 owner will get to marvel in flexray and how it improves the communication of the sensors by 10ms.

Originally Posted by xx3

Then why complain about it, if you know the answer?!?

There was no complaint on my part. The accept screen comment was said with tongue in cheek, which is why I put the winky smiley.

Originally Posted by xx3

Well I guess we'll just have to wait and see. BMW did build M prototypes of the E53, they just never made production. BMW has also admitted to building prototypes of the E70, we'll see if it makes it into production.

I think it would be kick ass if they did it.

Originally Posted by xx3

You want BMW to premier technology on its middle tier SUV. Maybe if you were asking for these features on a 7, I could say, well we can hope. But on an X5, or an E70, you've been setting yourself up for failure.

Anchoring and adjustment. The automakers play this fiddle well. You have low expectations, I have higher expectations because I feel that for a $50k+ SUV, which is twice what most SUV's cost, that I should be getting at least 100% more of an SUV, but thats just my opinion.

Originally Posted by xx3

Jaguar has, so has Audi with the A2 & A8. Didn't do your homework this time either. Jaguar is going to drop aluminium for the next version of the XJ8. So is Audi for the A2. Sure aluminium is great, but the cost/advantage ratio is too low for most to follow.

Jaguar is a failing company and the A2, is that even sold here in the states? Just because Jaguar, a failing company that makes shitty engines, and unreliable cars is failing at something that doesnt make it a bad idea. An X5 with an aluminum chassis, doors and skins with a diesel engine would do wonders for gas mileage.

Originally Posted by xx3

BMW instead takes a different approach, use aluminum in key areas of the car in order to keep legendary 50:50 balance. Something Audi (even with its aluminum chassis' still fails to do).

My expectations aren't low, they are REAL and based on REALITY. I'm not walking around kidding myself and thinking that if I whine enough that BMW will do as I please. Wake up and smell the coffee...

You're correct whining will do nothing. However if customers vote with their wallet( like I will since I'm buying used many years from now) then all companies will build what should be demanded.

Originally Posted by xx3

And no SUV/SAV will ever change the market in the same way as the E53 did until the SUV idea is tackled in a new way.

This will never come to fruition until customers start voting with their wallets.

Originally Posted by xx3

Its infuriating When people incorrectly accuse or blame people or organizations without doing their homework and knowing the facts.

I've done my homework which is why I have and will continue to respond to everything you say. So lets run down the list of things that you feel are impractical to ask for in a $50k+ SUV. Great gas mileage, an aluminum body, and nearly self driving (even though honda is nearly perfecting the technology as we speak). I dont feel that any of the above are too much to ask for, hell a car pc might add a few hundred in actual costs.

I used to work in the industry and it befuddled me how 80% of consumers buy a new car because the new model is simply more attractive and offers little to no more signifcant benefits. Does anyone not remember the "gentlemans agreement among car manfucturers to limit horsepower for decades?"

[xx3]

Originally Posted by lionkang

Double wishbone suspensions have been out for a long time, its like clamoring over the first sunroof to be added to an SUV, or the first SUV with an Ipod hook up. While I didnt know that the HPS had been upgraded from tubes to curtains, it's still not that big of a deal. Run flats? I can go to tirerack and buy them for my X5 if I want, whats the big deal? And while these are standard now, everyone with a brain knows that nothing is free. So in essence BMW is now charging customers for run flats.

Ok, so they have been out for a long time. So this contradicts your earlier point of BMW sandbagging. BMW didn't have to install a double-wishbone suspension, but they went and did it for us. Perhaps they should have sandbagged us and given us the same E53 suspension.

How are they charging us for runflats? I doubt the base price of the new X5 will increase by much in comparison to the number of features added. I should point out though that runflats do cost more than regular tires, further invalidating your point...

Although I do think that the above features are somewhat useful, I dont feel that they are significant. None of these are as significant as the invention of stability control, and side/curtain airbags imo. As far as flex ray goes, I and I'm sure most readers would agree that the reaction speed of ABS, stability control, etc etc and anything tied with our electrical system is adequate.

Ok, so if I understand you, you are saying that BMW should have gone all out and invented completely new things for the E70. Things that were never done before... I agree that the invention of stability control was significant, as was side impact airbags, but BMW didn't decide that the E53 was going to get all this revolutionary unheard of stuff. BMW applies new tech as its rolled out. Its insane (not only economically but logically) to expect BMW to pull out 100 new technological advancements out of its ass just to please one buyer.

Ah the magic of the internet. Trying to read between the lines and guess motives....It may seem that way, but if you heard me tell you this in person you might feel differently. I definitely dont think this X5 is a downer, its just not what the E53 was to SUV's. I feel that there were no "significantly" new additions to the X5 series.

Well i've listened to your suggestions, but in all honesty you have yet to ask for something I would call truly significant.

I tried to word this response as to avoid confusion. The 3.0 from what I've read is basically the 2.8 w/ variable valve timing bored out to 3.0 and hence a slight increase in hp is noted due to displacement. I dont know of any significant changes, but if you know of them I'd love to hear (seriously)

How about an electronic butterfly, a lower idle (to decrease emissions), a reduction in piston friction, chain camshafts, valve clearances which are adjusted by self-adjusting hydraulic valve clearance mechanism, etc... must I go on?

I might like to point out, that BMW has been consistently sandbagging us with its engines. For example, from the M50 to the M52 the engine lost 30kg. And no-way BMW sandbagged us by giving us aluminum crankcase! Who would have thought, an aluminum engine from a sandbagging company ! Hahahaha...

Once again more confusion, while I agree, yes that was a rant. I am chastising BMW for participating. This is not a Kia and this is not Ford. We pay over $10000 more than the cost of a similiarly if not better equipped Lexus or Infiniti. Maybe I am asking for too much. For $10000 more I dont feel its unreasonable to ask for a PC or something signifcant.

We hardly pay 10000 more for our cars. Our cars handle a lot better, and IMHO look a lot nicer and evoke much more then simple transportation (something the other two cannot truly achieve).

I think you are. What exactly do you want from this PC? Video games while you drive? I can't think of any feature that doesn't already exist in iDrive that I would want from my car. Please elaborate further...

Maybe your talking about e-mail and web access. The former has already been done with iDrive (albeit not in the U.S.). However I wonder how safe i'd feel around people driving E70's while they check their e-mail and surf the web.

Sure web access would be cool, but the GUI and appropriate elements do not exist to make them safe and truly useful.

What is so revolutionary about say... launching with a hybrid or even a diesel or a hybrid diesel? Since the 1999 inception, BMW has had a long time to work on things. The technology can be licensed from Toyota. Hybrids, while useless on the highway are wonderful in the city and they add instant torque.

BMW has been working on things. They are the only car maker out there with an actual real plan for Hydrogen. The only car maker actively engaging oil companies in building a hydrogen future (which finally happened this year with Total).

Hybrids (in their current form) are useless. The prius is a terrible little thing, which simply makes people feel good about themselves, when ironically they are actually hurting the environment more.

And its absolutely pathetic, that in a year, BMW is able to develop a hybrid transmission that pollutes less than Toyota's, yet transforms outperforms its gasoline counterpart. Please look up BMW Efficientdynamics concept car... (Incidentally, the Efficientdynamics concept produces much more torque then the crappy toyota hybrid tranny)

Diesel? I laugh out loud on this one. BMW with no doubt has the most advanced diesels of any manufacturer (with Audi being a close second). Don't blame BMW for issues related to our congress & their love for money under the table from high oil execs.

What is so out of this world to ask for an SUV to be stamped in aluminum? Or just for the SUV to be a great deal lighter? Why is it impractical to have an in car PC? I pay for a $50k+ SUV. I dont feel any of the above, which would be major advancements in SUV's are impractical in any way. If the consumer demands things the autmakers will respond. If the consumer keeps purchasing, the auto makers have no reason to make things signifcantly better.

While aluminum is a great idea in practice. Its not viable in the marketplace. Maybe when more automakers jump on, Aluminium prices will drop and price of the technology to build cars out of aluminum will drop too. Who knows..?

You or I would not build a car out of aluminium if we would lose money on it, just because it handled better. Go learn some economics my friend...

Well the consumer does keep purchasing. Thats out of our hands. I will say that America is obsessed with newer and better, and that consumers feel pushed to keep buying the latest and greatest over and over. This is a societal problem...

I will show you one in a few years and it will be on a sub $30k Honda. Where as the same year X5 owner will get to marvel in flexray and how it improves the communication of the sensors by 10ms.

Ok, please do show me that car in a few years. I can't wait for the system to fail, and the lawsuits pile in... Oh what a glorious day that will be...

Anchoring and adjustment. The automakers play this fiddle well. You have low expectations, I have higher expectations because I feel that for a $50k+ SUV, which is twice what most SUV's cost, that I should be getting at least 100% more of an SUV, but thats just my opinion.

You keep saying that I have low expectations. I have real expectations. I don't wish every year to Santa that I will win the lotto and never have to work a day in my life. Thats an UNREAL expectation. The chance of that ever occurring to you or I is slim. Sure I'd like a PC in a car, sure I'd like aluminum, but their not feasible. You have to get over this paranoia that auto makers are out to get you...

Getting 100% more SUV? I hate to break it to you, but when your buying a BMW today, your paying most of that for the badge. I'd love it not to be so, but a BMW badge apparently is worth quite a lot in todays society. You're also paying for German engineering and amazing driving dynamics. If you really wanted 100% more SUV, you've picked the wrong brand friend... It sounds to me like a toyota would be the perfect car for you...

Jaguar is a failing company and the A2, is that even sold here in the states? Just because Jaguar, a failing company that makes shitty engines, and unreliable cars is failing at something that doesnt make it a bad idea. An X5 with an aluminum chassis, doors and skins with a diesel engine would do wonders for gas mileage.

Sure it would, but I brought up those examples to show to you that its NOT FEASIBLE! Apparently I'll have to bring a club to your head for you to understand this concept...

Sure it would do wonders, BUT ITS NOT FEASIBLE ! Arghghghgh

You're correct whining will do nothing. However if customers vote with their wallet( like I will since I'm buying used many years from now) then all companies will build what should be demanded.

This is the same mentality people have in school. Well if everyone purposefully fails a curved test, then everyone will get high scores. It never happens, and never will. Society is working against you my friend...

I've done my homework which is why I have and will continue to respond to everything you say. So lets run down the list of things that you feel are impractical to ask for in a $50k+ SUV. Great gas mileage, an aluminum body, and nearly self driving (even though honda is nearly perfecting the technology as we speak). I dont feel that any of the above are too much to ask for, hell a car pc might add a few hundred in actual costs.

No you havn't. Each post I point out how you havn't read the press release, don't know about new technologies or whats going on in the industry or what is economically viable.

I used to work in the industry and it befuddled me how 80% of consumers buy a new car because the new model is simply more attractive and offers little to no more signifcant benefits. Does anyone not remember the "gentlemans agreement among car manfucturers to limit horsepower for decades?"

This is the icing on the cake. You worked in the industry, SO YOU OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW WHATS GOING ON !

Again do your homework. I presume you are talking about the Japanese Gentlemen's agreement, was between Japanese auto makers and has no bearing on BMW (who was never part of it, or followed its rules).

What concerns BMW, is the German Gentlemen's agreement, in which the main 3 german automakers were pressured into limiting their cars to 155 mph due to environmentalists and what they believed were unnecessary emissions which would have been produced over 155 mph on the autobahn (they believe that no-one really needs to travel that fast and it simply causes unnecessary harm to the environment). - This seems like a fair and real agreement, and BMW hasn't gone out of its way to make it hard for us to disable the limiter...

Its fine for you to have your own opinion, and you can say the E70 isn't all you've expected. But I think it would at least be fair to have realistic expectations and know your facts before you criticize. As long as you keep spewing B.S., I will have to correct... We don't want an army of ignorant minions being formulated because of X5world...

[prism]

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