Goodbye E70 :(

[AzNMpower32]

BMW really needs to work on quality. I've heard of poor paint quality and not-well-fitted interior pieces on almost every new BMW recently. I've read plenty from magazines and independent reviewers that say the paint quality on the X5 needs improvement........it's a bit rough so they say.

We tried an Audi today (YES that's right. Matt brought his parents into the Audi dealership intentionally. Not mistaken for the BMW dealership next door ) and it was faily impressive. I say its about 85% of a BMW performance for about 85% of the price. The interior's a lot better too, albeit a bit dated. The A3 we tried as better than expected. I knew the 2.0 engine and DSG would be good, but not this good.

[330i2X5]

I didnt have a bad hit as I sold it privately and made only a $3k loss!!

I didnt have a "lemon" per se...the car was fine...but little quality issues , rattling, gaps at door panles...as I said and a few others had made me make this decision.....when you spend that kind of money AND on a BMW you dont expect these...

European and Japanese manufacturers have always been unhappy with the quality of their vehicles built in the USA....I also remember reading this report somewhere.....that doesnt take away from the USA, just the lack of discipline and standards that European/Japanese set for their employees in those respective countries.....if they DEMANDED the same tolerance levels from the NA cars compared to Europe I think we would all be happy.

I think South Africa ( Rosslyn ) at present is most well respected BMW factory...
Bottom Line IMHO : A LUXURY EUROPEAN CAR WILL ALWAYS BE BETTER QUALITY.

Im happy to move on and at least have the ability to say I once had an E70 !

[Juanted]

I had NO quality problems with my e53 -- which, by the way -- was also built in the US. As someone already mentioned, the Accord is built in America (Ohio). The Camry is built in Tennessee. The Tundra is built in Texas.

BMW MAY indeed be having quality problems; do not blame those problems on the American workers, though.

Good luck,

Juan

[330i2X5]

please read my reply carefully...I do not accuse US employees of the issues...I blame their SUPERIORS.....companies need to demand the SAME level of quality as they do in Europe and elsewhere.

[trueX5er]

Originally Posted by Kaefer

I had NO quality problems with my e53 -- which, by the way -- was also built in the US. As someone already mentioned, the Accord is built in America (Ohio). The Camry is built in Tennessee. The Tundra is built in Texas.

BMW MAY indeed be having quality problems; do not blame those problems on the American workers, though.

Good luck,

Juan

I don't think location has too much as an affect on quality. The Ford Fusion is made in Mexico, and has gotten praises for it's build quality, meanwhile, the US built Camry has some trim alignment issues (experienced first hand).
But I will see how the European-built (I think Austrian) X3 sizes up to the X5 quality wise. I'm hoping for no problems.

Anyways, best of luck to you, 330i2x5.

[Juanted]

So... the superiors are not "American workers"? You're making an incredibly incongruent argument. You specifically blamed your quality problems on the car being built in America, when many of the top-quality, best-selling cars in the world are indeed built in America.

Let's face it, most new BMWs built here or anywhere else, have problems. The e53 was riddled with them, but they (BMW) eventually fixed them. By the way, VW has a buy-back program for the Touareg; MB seems to have FINALLY corrected ITS quality control issues after struggling with quality for the past 5 or 6 years... and none of that is related to American workers.

All I'm saying is, making a blanket statement that your problems can be traced back to "American workers" is unfair.

Good luck with the 335i... oh yeah, be on the lookout for transmission over-heating problems that have plagued that car... built in Germany, I believe?

Juan

Originally Posted by 330i2X5

please read my reply carefully...I do not accuse US employees of the issues...I blame their SUPERIORS.....companies need to demand the SAME level of quality as they do in Europe and elsewhere.

[rufusdedog]

Originally Posted by Kaefer

So... the superiors are not "American workers"? You're making an incredibly incongruent argument. You specifically blamed your quality problems on the car being built in America, when many of the top-quality, best-selling cars in the world are indeed built in America.

Let's face it, most new BMWs built here or anywhere else, have problems. The e53 was riddled with them, but they (BMW) eventually fixed them. By the way, VW has a buy-back program for the Touareg; MB seems to have FINALLY corrected ITS quality control issues after struggling with quality for the past 5 or 6 years... and none of that is related to American workers.

All I'm saying is, making a blanket statement that your problems can be traced back to "American workers" is unfair.

Good luck with the 335i... oh yeah, be on the lookout for transmission over-heating problems that have plagued that car... built in Germany, I believe?

Juan

[330i2X5]

Kaefer/Juan or whatever your name is....you can have the last word....whatever makes you happy.

[Juanted]

Ahhhh... I love it when a plan comes together.

Relax, man... this is not about having the last word. You have your opinion; I have mine. It's OK to disagree.

Originally Posted by 330i2X5

Kaefer/Juan or whatever your name is....you can have the last word....whatever makes you happy.

[grover432]

I'm sorry to hear about your problems. This is an issue that I have thought about over my years driving BMW's. This car company is known to push new models out the door and in many cases complete R&D while the vehicles are in the owners hands. I had a 1985 325e (eta engine) that wouldn't idle smoothly no matter what the dealer tried. The tach would rhythmically jump to 1,800rpm and back to 700 rpm at idle with no fix in sight. My 1987 325is was a great car (too bad about the accident and resultant frame damage). My 1989 535iA went through 3 camshafts, upper ball joints, control arms, seat material coming apart, etc. It also had problems idling smoothly. After this car, I took a break from BMW for a few years. My next BMW was a 1999 540iA, the best BMW I owned. It had very few problems and was a stellar performer.

In almost every case, buying a car a few years into the production cycle yielded a more problem free car. I'm not sure the issue has alot to do with where the vehicles are built though. My personal opinion is that the design is what drives the quality and fault rate. It is easy to trace faults to poor assembly. If door panels rattle, is it because an American worker assembled it poorly or was the panel designed with inadequate tolerances and a materal that is too thin to have the ridgidity necessary to avoid rattles?

On the other hand, looking at the Japanese cars, the Japanese seem in general to be obsessed with quality where the American car manufacturers seem to be happy with "it's good enough - no one is complaining". Now, with sales dropping due to poor quality product and undesireable models, the American manufacturers are in serious trouble. Another issue I see has to do with the culture of "entitlement" prevalent in the unions of American car manufacturers (Canadian workers included).

My personal opinion is that if the Unions continue on their present course, they'll take the car companies down with them and we'll all be buying foreign cars. I agree with other posts that assembly quality in North America seems to be poorer than with imports manufactured abroad.

To the issue at hand; I mystified as to why you would feel the way you do about BMW, yet give them more of your money!! Based on my experience, you're just as likely to have problems with a German built car (especially if it is an early production model). The I-drive problems on your German built 3 series are likely to be he same as with your E70.

Perhaps the best plan for us is to pay our money, but not expect perfection. I'm prepared to live with a few problems. I lease my cars and turn them in after 3 years. I like to get a new car every few years and don't look forward to repairing the problems these complex cars are bound to encounter during warranty and beyond. Knowing that I only have to put up with these problems over the short term, I don't get too involved with making the dealer do it over and over again until they get it right. I drive it and dump the problem in the dealer's lap when I turn the car in. I enjoy the drive when I have it though!