Break-in period?

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

Powertrain is engine and related components. Drivetrain is everything after the engine: transmission, driveshaft, differential, transfer case, axle, etc... Point out where they indicate that such a break-in procedure is bad for the engine. It is amusing to watch your argue based of a snippet in a magazine.

So powertrain doesn't include the transmission, huh? You need to inform a few people about this, including Ford, the SAE, etc who all seem to believe "powetrain" includes the transmission and other things in the train which creates and transmits power:


http://www.auto-pedia.com/auto-dicti...270/powertrain

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_18...wer_train.html

http://www.sae.org/servlets/pdEvent?...EVT_NAME=C0243

http://www.sae.org/servlets/SiteSear...pe=ALL&x=0&y=0

http://www.sei.cmu.edu/SPLC2004/2004_hof.html

"General Motors Powertrain (GMPT) is a division of General Motors Corporation (GM), the world's largest producer of passenger cars and trucks. GMPT provides powertrains to GM, its subsidiaries, and its partners. Today's automotive powertrains consist of an engine, transmissions and the associated control system. "

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...024/LATESTNEWS

"Ford is focusing its powertrain engineering in four areas: diesel engines for light-duty trucks and SUVs, higher horsepower V-8s for cars and trucks, gasoline-electric hybrids and six-speed automatic transmissions."



You also said "Point out where they indicate that such a break-in procedure is bad for the engine.

OK... "Lancaster and Herr confirm the only engines that get such treatment are those undergoing torture-testing during development to ensure that the Motomans of the world won't ring up big warranty claims" That's not exactly an endorsement of the Motoman process, now is it?

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by The Cleaner

my experience in BMW parts and service of over 20 years has not produced a single case of problems related to breakin.

I would agree with what you say, in the sense that any "problems" cause by improper break-in are not likely to show up for many, many miles and will not be traceable at that point to break-in process differences, e.g., buring oil at 100,000 miles vs. 200,000 miles.

The point to remember is quite simple though... The break-in procedure I recommend most certainly will not hurt the engine and rest of the powertrain. So if I am wrong, you have lost nothing except a bit of effort to concentrate on your driving, and perhaps a little deferred gratification, in the first 1,000 miles.

If, by any chance, I am right, then you have an engine that will last longer and burn less oil down the road.

So, why not?

Of course, if you lease the vehicle or plan to sell it before it gets 75,000 - 100,000 miles on it, it probably makes no difference to you personally, only the next owner.

Anyway, 'nuff said. I believe there's been enough posted for everyone to make up their own mind as to what they want to do. At least they have seen both sides.

[vinuneuro]

Penguin, you're right about the definition of powertrain. Usually it includes the engine transmission. Drivetrain is what's thereafter.

As far as what you're saying goes, doesn't seem like I can change your mind and I don't have a vested interest in what you or others do with their cars. My information is first-hand, working in/with some of the companies you listed. I've worked in engine developement, and the people I've worked for/with are engineers who design/develop pistons and other power cylinder components; I've also worked in the plants that produce over 1,000 engines per day and how I described is how they're tested before they reach customer vehicles.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

doesn't seem like I can change your mind

Actually, you can change my mind with some data and/or references to expert opinions. An SAE paper, an article by an engine engineer from Ford, GM, Toyota, BMW, Ricardo, or other experts would also change my mind.

But, to be honest, second-hand opinions from "someone who knows someone who is an expert who says..." will not change my opinion. This is not to say that "second-hand opinions from someone who knows someone who is an expert who says..." are not correct, simply that it is insufficent to change my mind based on my experience and data.

The two things I do know are:

(1) There is much higer wear in engine components duing the first 2,000 miles, and

(2) that the procedure I recommend will not hurt the engine or powertrain,

So following it the procedure has no downside and, if by any chance I do happen to be right, it has a good upside for people who plan to keep their vehicles for many miles.

I would love to see an article by an expert engine engineer or an SAE paper which discusses the impact of break-in on engines. If you ever find one, I would appreciate the link or reference.

[autoque]

Man... you guys confused me more than you clarified

I was just gonna baby the vehicle, but now I don't know what to do anymore.

[GPSnV1]

Originally Posted by autoque

Man... you guys confused me more than you clarified

I was just gonna baby the vehicle, but now I don't know what to do anymore.

I, too, found the exchange beyond resolution.

However, I am in the first leg of a trip and have now cleared the 1,200 mark. Is it now safe to use cruise control for going, say, 80 mph? Again, this is a medical factor in play since I have DVTs in my left leg and getting this far without cruise has meant I turned most of the interstate driving to my spouse.

[Penguin]

> Is it now safe to use cruise control for going, say, 80 mph?

Yes.

[Penguin]

My answer was perhaps a bit too short.

Using the cruise control at 80 mph is not going to damage the engine or powertrain; however, the question of whether it is safe to use cruise control at 80 mph is another question entirely.

I am a bit curious though, I can see why a problem with the right leg could be impacted by cruise control, but how does the use of cruise control affect the left leg?

[GPSnV1]

Originally Posted by Penguin

My answer was perhaps a bit too short.Using the cruise control at 80 mph is not going to damage the engine or powertrain; however, the question of whether it is safe to use cruise control at 80 mph is another question entirely.I am a bit curious though, I can see why a problem with the right leg could be impacted by cruise control, but how does the use of cruise control affect the left leg?

Using cruise allows me to move my left leg as needed and position it to my best advantage. True the right leg would be worse, but I have all kinds of rules as it is for the left like stopping and walking around every 1 1/2 hours, elevating my leg as much as possible, taking Coumadin, wearing compression hose, etc.I did mean "safe" in terms of whatever is affected by the "break-in".

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by GPSnV1

Using cruise allows me to move my left leg as needed and position it to my best advantage.

Thanks for the information to satisfy my curiosity. Be careful with the coumadin, as the blood levels really can be impacted by the type of food you eat.

I wonder if the "active seat" feature is of any help with DVT, or if it is too subtle of a change to mak a difference.