SPOTTED: E70 N54 mule

[JCL]

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

I don't understand. How do you abuse a car to cause the oil to overheat?

From the Edmunds article (partial excerpt):

All at once the BMW coupe that we've considered the leader in its class finally decides it's had enough. With its oil temperature pinned at 300 degrees F and its coolant temperature climbing rapidly, the turbocharged Bavarian wonder engages its limp-home mode and we crawl pathetically back to the pits.

This all-too-dramatic demonstration of Japanese-versus-German engineering occurred at Nissan's Arizona Test Center, where Infiniti invited a select group of journalists to drive the 2008 Infiniti G37 Coupe back-to-back with Germany's best. The limp-home part, well, that wasn't part of the plan.

In fairness, both cars had experienced a relentless pounding by journalists with a profound absence of mechanical sympathy before the BMW finally succumbed to the desert heat. But the flogging had been similarly abusive to both cars, and the Infiniti G37 never showed any signs of weakness.

Happened to automatic transmission vehicles without sport packages. The rest had additional oil coolers. Didn't happen to the Infiniti though. "Relentless pounding....with no sympathy" in the Arizona desert doesn't sound like the design specification. It is a road vehicle. It saved itself, it didn't break. Limp home means reduced boost until it cools down. It is the equivalent of a warning light.

Owners planning to track their cars could order the sport package (with the additional cooler) or, god forbid, the manual transmission (resulting in less heat under the hood).

This article had a life beyond all belief when it came out. 335 owners, some of whom weren't sure how to open their hoods, were all inspecting their cars for oil coolers and demanding that BMW retrofit them, even without evidence of failures, or any intention to track the cars.

No doubt some 335 owners had overheating issues unlike the above. This was the article that fed the firestorm, however.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=120061

[JCL]

Originally Posted by hhhm3

Yes, it is currently in the X5 35d (3.0-liter, twin-turbo, inline 6-cylinder diesel engine).

Yes, but we are discussing the N54 gasoline engine.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by LeMansX5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N54

The new N54 in F01 has 326 hp.

So, it is a new generation of the N54? Do we know if it has different hardware, or different software, similar to the BMW performance map now available for the 300 hp version?

Or, are BMW simply coming clean on the real power of the N54? Many tests found around 330 hp on the 335 (300 hp at the rear wheels), so this could be just a truth in advertising campaign for the same engine.

[vinuneuro]

I take it you've never tracked a car before. All track driving is 'flogging', even in just 20min sessions.

Ferrari's, Porsche's, M3's, M5's are road cars. They shouldn't be tracked? This non-Sport automatic trans 335i is a BMW. Living on a track should be within the design specification; it's fitting against the theme of their general marketing. Even BMW knows it. Anyone who buys a BMW shouldn't have to order anything specific; every single car from their factories should be able to take it. Hell, I remember one of the initial E70 ads being of it driven on the Nurburgring, and also remember them saying in the press release that it's only a few seconds slower than the E46 going around there. BMW doesn't spec a 10W-60 oil in M engines for no reason. etc etc. One can give many other examples of the company and its products' pedigree.

Let's assume it's ok for them to equip a twin-turbo engine'd vehicle without an oil cooler because it's a non-Sport with auto trans..how stupid would their PR division have to be to give this vehicle to any press group other than Consumer Reports for an extended review/test.

Fwiw: whatever BMW you own (diesel, petrol, auto, manual, suv, car) you can't appreciate even 10% of what it's capable of, what went into it and what driving experience is possbile driving it around on public roads.

Originally Posted by JCL

From the Edmunds article (partial excerpt):



Happened to automatic transmission vehicles without sport packages. The rest had additional oil coolers. Didn't happen to the Infiniti though. "Relentless pounding....with no sympathy" in the Arizona desert doesn't sound like the design specification. It is a road vehicle. It saved itself, it didn't break. Limp home means reduced boost until it cools down. It is the equivalent of a warning light.

Owners planning to track their cars could order the sport package (with the additional cooler) or, god forbid, the manual transmission (resulting in less heat under the hood).

This article had a life beyond all belief when it came out. 335 owners, some of whom weren't sure how to open their hoods, were all inspecting their cars for oil coolers and demanding that BMW retrofit them, even without evidence of failures, or any intention to track the cars.

No doubt some 335 owners had overheating issues unlike the above. This was the article that fed the firestorm, however.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=120061

[JCL]

Originally Posted by vinuneuro

I take it you've never tracked a car before. All track driving is 'flogging', even in just 20min sessions.

Ferrari's, Porsche's, M3's, M5's are road cars. They shouldn't be tracked? This non-Sport automatic trans 335i is a BMW. Living on a track should be within the design specification; it's fitting against the theme of their general marketing. Even BMW knows it. Anyone who buys a BMW shouldn't have to order anything specific; every single car from their factories should be able to take it. Hell, I remember one of the initial E70 ads being of it driven on the Nurburgring, and also remember them saying in the press release that it's only a few seconds slower than the E46 going around there. BMW doesn't spec a 10W-60 oil in M engines for no reason. etc etc. One can give many other examples of the company and its products' pedigree.

Let's assume it's ok for them to equip a twin-turbo engine'd vehicle without an oil cooler because it's a non-Sport with auto trans..how stupid would their PR division have to be to give this vehicle to any press group other than Consumer Reports for an extended review/test.

Fwiw: whatever BMW you own (diesel, petrol, auto, manual, suv, car) you can't appreciate even 10% of what it's capable of, what went into it and what driving experience is possbile driving it around on public roads.

Of course it matches their marketing theme. That just illustrates the differences between marketing and engineering. The roundel has a propellor in it (marketing the BMW heritage) but that doesn't mean the cars can fly.

Yes, I have tracked cars (in the UK), but not my own vehicles. The last track event I was at we drove Ferraris, Misubishi EVOs, and a range of other vehicles. I recall that three of four Ferraris went home on a trailer, as did one of the two EVOs. None were crashes (we were timed, not wheel to wheel). The Ferrari failures were a water pump, a head gasket (presumed, but seemed obvious), and whatever they call their version of SMG (hydraulic failure of the shifter). Guess they couldn't handle it either.

The BMW PR department didn't give the vehicle described above to a press group. Infiniti did (without BMW knowing) and there were charges of unfair practices there, but I left that out of the story. Maybe they beat the 335 up first, I don't know.

While I respect BMW heritage, and have great respect for BMW engineering, I am glad they don't design road cars solely for the track. If they did, the brake pads wouldn't work until they warmed up, and would be noisy. That would be the cost of reduced fade. Street pads aren't suitable for track days, no surprise there. Equipping a vehicle properly for its intended use is not a bad thing IMO.

I also think BMW is getting further away from track-appropriate cars, M cars aside. Just look at the weight of the X6. Hardly a track day vehicle.

A warning light coming on for high temperature (and an associated cut in boost) is far less of a pain than fading the brakes, and it certainly isn't difficult to fade street brakes on any track day. I recall on the Ferraris we had suggested braking points on the circuit so that we wouldn't boil the brake fluid (a problem about which the host had learned the hard way)

[Penguin]

> The roundel has a propellor in it (marketing the BMW heritage)

Actually, BMW AG says that is an urban legend and it represents the Bavarian flag.

http://www.oaksofwindcrest.com/images/bavarian_flag.jpg

[vinuneuro]

Pads aren't really a problem in most of these high-performance cars. I've used (non-oem) street pads before in my Prelude that don't fade on the track. The good companies like Carbotech, Cobalt etc have good compounds. They won't offer the performance of dedicated pads, but they won't fade or squeel either. Compromise is usually reduced life. Brake fluid is what needs to be replaced with aftermarket stuff.

The high-performance brands are definitely designed to withstand track use. I know for a fact that most Porsche, Lamborghini and Ferrari dealers will honor warranty claims from track related parts failures. My neighbor had such service done on his Gallardo last summer, as have others on the boards. In fact, a lot of Ferrari dealers hold track events. Dunno what models you were with, but the 360's, 430's and newer models are really pretty reliable these days. Audi-era Lambo's are even better.

As for engineering v. marketing, if BMW markets products within certain contexts, they better back it up. They don't need to produce outstanding performance, but they should be able to withstand it. I've tracked my Prelude more than a few times, and know many other people who drive all sorts of makes and models. For the most part, most cars (that aren't highly modified) have zero reliability problems on the track. Considering an oil cooler is a pretty straightforward solution, they should've just added it. It's pretty silly not to have one on turbocharged vehicle.

The 335's lack of an oil cooler is a problem even on the street. People who've driven in high ambient temps have reported oil temps going to 280F. That's pretty high for on-road use, and especially so with limp mode being 20F away. Even BMW admitted the mistake through product revision. All initial automatic models didn't come with oil coolers. They were eventually implemented in Sport models.

Originally Posted by JCL

Of course it matches their marketing theme. That just illustrates the differences between marketing and engineering. The roundel has a propellor in it (marketing the BMW heritage) but that doesn't mean the cars can fly.

Yes, I have tracked cars (in the UK), but not my own vehicles. The last track event I was at we drove Ferraris, Misubishi EVOs, and a range of other vehicles. I recall that three of four Ferraris went home on a trailer, as did one of the two EVOs. None were crashes (we were timed, not wheel to wheel). The Ferrari failures were a water pump, a head gasket (presumed, but seemed obvious), and whatever they call their version of SMG (hydraulic failure of the shifter). Guess they couldn't handle it either.

The BMW PR department didn't give the vehicle described above to a press group. Infiniti did (without BMW knowing) and there were charges of unfair practices there, but I left that out of the story. Maybe they beat the 335 up first, I don't know.

While I respect BMW heritage, and have great respect for BMW engineering, I am glad they don't design road cars solely for the track. If they did, the brake pads wouldn't work until they warmed up, and would be noisy. That would be the cost of reduced fade. Street pads aren't suitable for track days, no surprise there. Equipping a vehicle properly for its intended use is not a bad thing IMO.

I also think BMW is getting further away from track-appropriate cars, M cars aside. Just look at the weight of the X6. Hardly a track day vehicle.

A warning light coming on for high temperature (and an associated cut in boost) is far less of a pain than fading the brakes, and it certainly isn't difficult to fade street brakes on any track day. I recall on the Ferraris we had suggested braking points on the circuit so that we wouldn't boil the brake fluid (a problem about which the host had learned the hard way)

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Penguin

> The roundel has a propellor in it (marketing the BMW heritage)

Actually, BMW AG says that is an urban legend and it represents the Bavarian flag.

http://www.oaksofwindcrest.com/images/bavarian_flag.jpg

Possibly. They should look back at this, apparently the 1916 BMW logo. Perhaps the Bavarian flag colours were superimposed on the propellor from this shot.

[JCL]

Returning now to the original topic, what will the twin turbo petrol 3.0 be called in the X5 when it is available? In the 1/3/5 series, it is the 135/335/535. In the X6 it is called the xdrive35. These models have 300 hp (306 by UK rating system). In the new 7 series, as Lemans noted, it has 326 hp, and is called the 740. Confusing, because the 4.0 used to be a V8, but there you go. Will we see a 326 hp version, and if so will the xdrive35 be replaced by the xdrive40?

[JCL]

Vig:

It was years back, and there were two each of the 348, and the 355.

We have gotten off topic a little with the 3.0 tt overheating. I think it is fair to say that there isn't an overheating problem that we can expect to see on the X5 when it gets this engine.

Not sure what to say about the high pressure fuel pump failures, when some posters have had three of them. No failures that I know of in my circle, so I would suspect regional differences in fuel as a contributing factor. Or very bad luck.