DIESEL: Is the 4k worth it? It depends.....

[MrX]

Originally Posted by Fraser

I think that everything in Australia is more expensive than the US! Current X5 Aussie pricing is:

3-litre six-cylinder petrol: $86,635
3-litre six-cylinder single-turbo diesel: $88,541
3-litre six-cylinder twin-turbo diesel: $105,490
4.8-litre V8 petrol: $121,908

Aussie dollar is currently worth 65 cents US. Six months ago it was close to parity (97 cents).

As for relative performance between the 4.8 and the twin-turbo diesel, in Aussie spec the 4.8 is 0.7 second faster to 100 kilometres per hour (6.5s v 7.2s) and 0.7 second faster over the standing-start kilometre (26.6s v 27.3s). For your reference, 1 kilometre = 0.62 mile.

However, these figures don't tell the whole story. I've driven both the 4.8 and the 35d back to back over an extended period (not just at a customer clinic) and the V8 simply can't match the diesel's huge bottom-end and mid-range power and needs all the revs that it can muster to see off the diesel. By 1200rpm the diesel is already making more torque than the 4.8 ever produces, and the diesel's peak torque is some 20% better than the 4.8 and is produced from 2000rpm whereas the 4.8's peak torque doesn't come on stream until 3400rpm. As a racer, I'm sure that you will appreciate that performance is not just about peak power, but power spread and power delivery. I can't really comment on Barcius' comments because all my experience has been with the Australian models and your models (both petrol and diesel) may be significantly different.

Fraser, thank you for the info. There is a huge difference between the biturbo diesel and the V8 in Australia. Here in the US the difference is approximately only $6K according to the sticker, but can be actually less expensive in real life assuming the dealers are currently heavily discounting the cars in stock. I will take your word about your experience with the diesel versus gasoline. Like I said, it is very hard for me to picture a gasoline BMW V8 engine losing to a diesel, but I will defer the decision after I drive both vehicles. My friend has a V8 with the sport package and the drive is absolutely fantastic. Can not wait to buy one. I drove a 3.0si gasoline at the dealer and it is not the engine I would choose to move this monster. I will keep you posted. It may be true that the US spec is not as good as the Australia one.

[Craig]

It looks like I'm going to place my order for the diesel tomorrow. I haven't driven the diesel, but have driven both the 4.8 and 3.0. I didn't feel like waiting another year for the new I drive. I should have it around the first of the year...

Craig

[MrX]

Originally Posted by Craig

It looks like I'm going to place my order for the diesel tomorrow. I haven't driven the diesel, but have driven both the 4.8 and 3.0. I didn't feel like waiting another year for the new I drive. I should have it around the first of the year...

Craig

Graig, please let me know the price you pay. My dealer is not discounting the diesel, but it is willing to go invoice + $2K on the V8 if I order it or invoice if I get one from their stock. I just want to drive one soon so I can make my decision. I would hate to miss the deal on the V8 right now.

[Fraser]

Originally Posted by Craig

It looks like I'm going to place my order for the diesel tomorrow. I haven't driven the diesel, but have driven both the 4.8 and 3.0. I didn't feel like waiting another year for the new I drive. I should have it around the first of the year...

Craig

As much as I am a converted 'diesel head' ( I love my X5 diesel and would never go back to V8 petrol power) I suggest that you drive the diesel before you buy. Diesels have a different 'feel' to a petrol engine and some people just don't like them.

[Craig]

MrX, I sent you a private message. Fraser, I've driven the diesel Mercedes ML and other than not having enough passing power, found it drove fine. I don't feel like waiting any longer for a test drive. I've waited two years for the diesel.

Regards,

Craig

[Fraser]

Originally Posted by Craig

MrX, I sent you a private message. Fraser, I've driven the diesel Mercedes ML and other than not having enough passing power, found it drove fine. I don't feel like waiting any longer for a test drive. I've waited two years for the diesel.

Regards,

Craig

Two years is a long time! I can understand your position.

[grover432]

Originally Posted by MrX

Graig, please let me know the price you pay. My dealer is not discounting the diesel, but it is willing to go invoice + $2K on the V8 if I order it or invoice if I get one from their stock. I just want to drive one soon so I can make my decision. I would hate to miss the deal on the V8 right now.

That deal just tells you where the dealer and BMW think the value for the V8 is going to be once the 35d gets here. As for performance of the diesel vs the V8, I can believe the Aussie review above. Top Gear tested a BMW 535d and I believe if beat an M5 to 40 mph. Most vehicles seem to have either high HP (they are blisteringly fast once they get going), or high torque (and they move incredibly fast off the line. At some point the two designs intersect. So, off the line and to say 40 mph the 35d will likely outperform the 4.8, after that the 4.8 will pass the 35d and keep going.

Don't laugh at this comparison, but my only experience with diesel was a 2004 Dodge 3/4 Ton Ram pickup. It had something like 525 lb. ft of torque and 285 hp. I'm not one to race from stoplight to stoplight, but when I wasn't pulling a trailer and found myself in the curb lane waiting for a light to turn green - cars parked in the curb lane ahead - I never got beat to 35 mph by anything that was stopped to the left of me (OK, Porsches, etc. not included). And the truck did it effortlessly. My only gripe? Turbo lag.

I'm reserving judgement until I drive the diesel as well. But having come from one, I'm expecting great things and as far as usable performance, I totally understand where the Aussie is coming from.

[MrX]

Originally Posted by grover432

That deal just tells you where the dealer and BMW think the value for the V8 is going to be once the 35d gets here.

Thank you Grover432. Good points except for the point above. I do not think the dealer and BMW think the value of the V8 will suffer following the introduction of the diesel. It is because the V8 has been around since 2007 so they have in stock and are ready to deal. The diesel is a novelty for now and it attracted a lot of attention because it finally made to the US shores after being acclaimed worldwide. I believe when the dealer starts getting them more frequently it will get discounted too. It happened to a colleague from work who purchased an M3 from our dealer just after its introduction and now you can find the same car at a discount and low APR. Patience and do not get emotional are the secret here and in many other financial decisions including real estate...

[jimsaq]

Originally Posted by MrX

There is a huge difference between the biturbo diesel and the V8 in Australia.

This is kind of off-topic, just offering it simply for info - in AU the bulk of the extra cost in the V8 is due to several extra options being standard. When I was buying my 3.0sd I worked out that if you deducted the cost of the things which are standard on the V8 but are optional on all the other models here, there's only a couple of thousand dollars difference.

Similarly, once I'd specced up my 3.0sd with a bunch of goodies, it came out very close in price to a V8 specced up the same way.

[grover432]

Originally Posted by MrX

Thank you Grover432. Good points except for the point above. I do not think the dealer and BMW think the value of the V8 will suffer following the introduction of the diesel. It is because the V8 has been around since 2007 so they have in stock and are ready to deal. The diesel is a novelty for now and it attracted a lot of attention because it finally made to the US shores after being acclaimed worldwide. I believe when the dealer starts getting them more frequently it will get discounted too. It happened to a colleague from work who purchased an M3 from our dealer just after its introduction and now you can find the same car at a discount and low APR. Patience and do not get emotional are the secret here and in many other financial decisions including real estate...

MrX,

In my neck of the woods, SUV's in general, have fallen out of favor. It seems that people were scared by the high fuel costs of last summer and although fuel prices have dropped, most people believe they will eventually head back to where they were. the SUVs that use the most fuel are sitting on lots the longest and are being discounted the most. Take for example the Mercedes GL550; US dealers have them piled up on their lots while the GL320 Blutec is selling reasonably well. If you look at the lease end values (36 months) on those 2 models, you will see a 4 - 6% difference. This is a clear indication of where MB expects to see future values of these gas guzzlers.

It is no different with BMW. If the dealer has allot of them, it's because they ordered too many, or people aren't buying them; hence the deeper price cuts. My local dealer has 3 X5 (3.0si) left over from 2008 and zero 4.8's. Why? They scaled back on ordering 4.8's 6 months ago and only brought them in on order. Maybe our smaller market dictates a different strategy, but I think the trend is following in larger markets as well.

I agree that discounting on the 35d will be less in the initial period, however unless BMW holds back production, by spring when SUV sales slow anyway, customers will be able to get a much better deal.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.