Is the 3rd Row Safe?

[us_matrix]

There is a video under owner section from BMWUSA website and the height is 5' 6" tall.

BMW North America=

[JCL]

Originally Posted by hhhm3

Booster seats in the 3rd row? Booster seats don't have safety hooks for the anchors. What is your problem with that?
Booster seats requirements are 40lb - 80lb and over 4'9" or at 9yrs.
Many toddlers are between 40-80lb and 4'9" at age of 4 -5.
So why can't they sit in the 3rd row?

You are correct that BMW don't specifically advise against booster seats in the 3rd row. They simply don't address non-tethered car seats, lumping all car seats in together. They focus on child restraint devices, which I interpret as seats having restraint harnesses. Some seats for up to 12 years old have tethers, but obviously a simple booster cushion does not.

I think it is a judgement call as to the use of booster seats in the third row. The risks are that the seat may not be set up correctly and the belt tightened each time, because it is hard for the parent to access the third row. If the child releases the seat belt, it is harder for the parent to notice. Those are judgement issues, up to each parent.

I noted originally that BMW advises against putting child seats in the third row, which is true. It is hard to argue with the logic that it is reasonable to do so, especially given that the manual (and Meister's post above) both note that the 3rd row is equipped with locking seat belts for child seats. The ability to lock the lap/shoulder belt is important, so that the belt doesn't loosen during a trip.

Drive safe.

[watrob]

Originally Posted by XCinq

I wanted reclining seats as we do long trips and the kids fall asleep but unfortunately you cannot have that without the third row option.
I agree reclining would be more comfortable. I think what I heard was more to do with the part that you sit on. If anyone is going for the third row just give the second row a good up and down bounce test, especially if you have a boney butt.

Both parts of the second row seat moves, the back part can recline back or forward and the bench part you sit on moves forward also, its make them quite comfortable for long trips.

[watrob]

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

All good points.


Keep in mind the fact that the 3rd row seat belts have the locking feature (actually all the belts have this feature except for the driver's seatbelt) does not mean the feature has been specifically implemented for the use of a child restraint device:

Hi Meister,

The seat belts we get here are all " Inertia-reel seat belts with pyrotechnical belt tensioners and belt force governors"

What do you mean by locking feature except on driver's belt!

[watrob]

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

You are correct, we get those as well. What I am referring to is the feature of the seatbelt that lets you pull it all the way out, then by allowing it to pull back in against a load (child car seat, suitcase, cooler, etc.) you can effectively 'lock' the seatbelt in place and essentially bypass the inertia-reel functionality. This can be done on all the seat belts except for the driver seatbelt. Here is the description in the manual (webbing means seatbelt by the way):

I am pretty sure we don't have that here, we actually by law have seperate mounting points in the BMW's (for that matter all cars here have them) for child restaint belts to clip into to hold the child seat on the back seats.

Believe it or not but when you buy a Merc convertible here they give you a free special child (baby) seat with belts to clip in there brackets. Rather than supply the correct standard brackets for Australia they must have thought it cheaper to supply the baby seats to suite the brakets from Europe who use the same system.

[watrob]

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

I would be really surprised if your belts didn't have this functionality. The separate mounting points you mention might be the same ones we have here and they are part of the LATCH system which can be used, but are only recommended up to a certain weight (typically child under 40 lbs).

Laws do vary by country and I am certainly no expert on what is proper and legal in Australia though I will say that there certainly do exist differences, since many manufacturers have "Australia only" instructions (i.e. see this link and the write-up for "Australian Method" FAQ - Customer Service - Britax USA )

Yes, had a look at that and yes we have the seperate latch brackets for cargo webbing and tying items but we also have seperate brackets to clip the baby seats onto.

Our baby seats come with a standard harness (like seat belts) that use these brackets, so you can move your baby seat from one vehicle to another as it is a Australian standard, which is pretty good idea.

[hhhm3]

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

It's "In My Honest Opinion."

Look at the pages in the manual that I posted above. Clearly you are refusing to do so, and by that determination I think it's idiot advice.

(ie. Where do you see a recommendation of 5' 7" ? BMW advertisement? Are you kidding me. So X5 owners are expected to reference a BMW advertisement for their safety concerns and not the official manual that came with the car. Good one.) etc.

The section in the manual post #25, are really referring to child seats with tethering system, that is why the don't recommend them in the 3rd row because they don't have tethering hooks install in the 3rd rows.
This is why they don't recommend it.
Personally I don't think you have a 3rd row and a child seats, that is why the lack of understanding and misinterpretation of the manual.

The BMW manual is also resigned to protect BMW from any liabilities if people misinterpret the meaning like you did.

There are child seats (3-in-1 child seats (20-80lbs) also boaster) that have tethering hooking systems and if BMW did say we recommend boaster seats only in the 3rd row seats then some people may try installing the 3-in1 child seats in the 3rd row and if any thing happens, there would be a law suit against BMW because there are no tethering hooks in the 3rd row. They just don't address non-tethering child seat for this purpose.

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

All good points JCL. But I have to disagree with a few things (your points about "BMW don't specifically advise against booster seats in the 3rd row. They simply don't address non-tethered car seats, lumping all car seats in together.") The reason for my disagreement is that (as you btw correctly speculated in your post) BMW and other groups (manufacturers, associations, etc.) now refer to child seats (rear facing, forward facing, convertible, booster, etc.) as one big category called "child restraint devices." So based on that, then I would say YES, they do specifically advise against such seats in the 3rd row.

Again, your misinterpretation, BMW did not address non-tethering child seats period. The manual addressed specifically tethering child seats safety (all sensible stuff) and by no means did they lump up all child car seats in together, no such statement or assumption in the manual.
Based on that, you are giving misinformed advice.
Do you think your opinion trumps BMW dealers’ advice, who gone through BMW's own safety training and regular training and conferences? I am sorry by if any of the dealers saw your comments; they may say you’re an idiot? (They may?)

Also a us_matrix mentioned, BMW recommends 5'6" and under for the 3rd row.

[hhhm3]

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

You are so f-ing wrong that it's sickening. Truly sickening. What you are describing as "tethering" child seats are just child restraint devices that use the LATCH system. This system is only recommended by most manufacturers to be used for kids weighing UNDER 40 POUNDS. After that, the child restraint device needs to be mounted using THE REGULAR SEATBELTS. WHERE EXACTLY IN THE STATEMENTS BELOW FROM THE MANUAL DO YOU SEE ANY MENTION OF "TETHERING" ???????? So if a child restraint device is rated for a child weight 5 to 65 lbs (often called a "convertible" model) then following "the child restraint device manufacturer's instructions" would result in:

A. Mounting the device using the LATCH anchors OR the seatbelt when the child is between 5 - 40 lbs.

AND

B. Mounting the device using ONLY the seatbelt when the child is between 40 - 65 lbs.

IN BOTH CASES, THE CHILD RESTRAINT DEVICE SHOULD NOT BE MOUNTED ON THE 3RD ROW SEATS. THIS STATEMENT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LACK OF "LATCH" ANCHORS PRESENT ON THE 3RD ROW SEATS.

So, if you disagree, it must be wrong. I think you need therapy!!
But don't worry, I and everyone in this forum will support you during you therapy needs...

Tethering child seats are the same as child restraint devices that uses the LATCH system.

In the manual it is very generic in its statement and talks about the child seat with picture of how to tether to the latching system (hooks) for the child seats. It even shows the pictures

+++
It even show a picture of the booster seat being installed but they call it child restraint devices (generic term), so the manual do refer to boosters and can be secured in the 3rd row seats.
Read the section under "Child Seat Security"
As you even mentioned and states int he manual "all of the safety belts of the 2nd and 3rd row seats and passenger seat belts can be locked to prevent them from pulled out in order to secure child restraint devices.

This statement says the safety belts in the 3rd row are made for securing child restraint devices (means boaster seats 40-80lbs).

Personally I think the manual is a bit contradictory.
Like I said and I believe someone else said this before me, BMW covers them self well in the manual so that they are not at risk of liabilities.
(you can do it, but don't do it)

[JCL]

Well, at the risk of entering a debate that may have already gone over the edge....

Meister, I think you need to calm down. Your tone is insulting.

BMW refers to child restraint devices in the generic sense in the manual. They don't give the reason for not putting children in child restraint devices in the third row, but they make clear that the third row doesn't include tether anchors (yes, I know what they are, and I do know that they represent the T in laTch, so your claim that LATCH and tethers have nothing to do with each other is nonsense). Lower anchors don't matter, as seatbelts do the same function. Top tethers do matter and they are what the 3rd row is missing.

You can either use individual judgement and conclude that if your car seat doesn't have a tether you are OK in the third row. Or, you can pedantically read the manual and conclude things from it that may be extrapolations at best. Or, you can read the manual and decide what the German words translated to English by a copywriter actually meant in their first language. Or, you can keep your child out of the third row and just call it a day. Your call.

With any of the above options, dropping the swearing and overly dramatic putdowns will contribute to a happier community, IMHO (I use it to mean humble opinion, not sure where honest comes from). I refer us all back to the thread that Michelle posted, a sticky at the top of the forum, suggesting that a modicum of decorum goes a long way.

[hhhm3]

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

IM Humble O this has been a complete waste of my time. Do whatever you want.

LOL, you humble! you are actually funny!
Good luck with therapy dude! MeYou = BEST buddies!!Forever!!

But I think Meister is Okay! We'll all chip in for "get well soon" flowers for you.