X5 newb looking at a 3.5D, good lease deal?

[oddly_calm]

Hey all. I'm a BMW enthusiast (previously owned an E36 M3, currently own a 330i ZHP and an S54 M coupe) who is shopping for a new ride for the wifey. She is currently in a Forester which has been a great car, but she's running out of miles on her lease with 3 months left so we thought we'd start looking. Dealers are hurting for biz obviously, and most have offered to make her last 2-3 payments to get her out of the Forester and into something new. She was mainly looking at crossovers in the $35K range; Tribeca, Highlander, CX-9. Luckily the nicest BMW dealer in the Twin Cities is right down the road from the Subie dealer she was working with, so I non-chalantly suggested we stop in and at least test drive an E70.

She drove the 3.0 gas and while she clearly liked the luxury after just driving the Tribeca, the performance didn't get her excited considering the price. The saleswoman suggested we try one of the diesels, something that wasn't even on my radar going in. She told us we would be surprised, and she wasn't kidding. What a gem of a motor! My wife was clearly enjoying it, so when we pulled back in to the dealer I made her get in the passenger side so I could have a go around the block. Having never driven a diesel, I just wasn't prepared for the tarmac ripping grunt of the thing off the line, it's crazy. It makes a pretty good noise too, which was another pleasant surprise.

So we head back inside, and I'm not really expecting them to make us an offer to really entertain considering she would like to keep her lease payments around $500 a month, give or take. She goes away, and comes back with 3 lease offers. All are 12K miles per year for 3 years. The 3.0i came in around $682 with $5K up front (tax, title, deposit, first month's payment included). One diesel came in around $722 with $5K up front. We say "Ok, thanks" and I'm about to get up and walk out. Then she gives us the numbers on another diesel... $500 a month with the same $5K up front. I sit back down. "What?" She says "Yeah, we've had that one in inventory for too long, and it needs to go away. We'll take care of the last payments on your other lease as well."

Specs on the car... it's a bare bones 3.5D. Jet black / beige leatherette. No other add-ons, which is fine with us because the only must have's on her list were a panoramic moonroof and heated front seats.

So what say you? Can you think of any reason not to jump on this? I've read about every thread on here regarding the diesel over the course of today, and feedback seems positive overall. I ran all the numbers, and figuring in the superior mileage plus the tax credit plus the free maintenance, total cost comes very close to the Tribeca and actually undercuts the Highlander (which is crazy to me considering the sticker prices). FYI, diesel is about the same price as mid grade here, which obviously helps the equation.

I've already managed to banish most of the old canards that haunt diesels from my mind (noisy, smelly, etc) because they clearly aren't an issue with this car. About the only concern I would still have is cold weather starts, since we live in the great white north of Minnesota and it gets pretty damn cold up here.

By the way, she's sitting in our driveway right now since I convinced the sales manager that we needed to spend a little more time with it. I've been a fan of the X5 since it's inception and I have to say it's only gotten better looking in this iteration, especially in black. I'll throw in a pic here:



Anyways, let me know what you guys think. I'm a regular over at roadfly and sometimes on bimmerforums, looking forward to possibly joining your community sometime soon. Oh, and sorry for the novel.

Andrew

[Max Blast]

500 a month? Just curious, did they give you a sale price on it? I'm not a fan of leasing but that sounds like a screaming deal.

[oddly_calm]

Originally Posted by Max Blast

500 a month? Just curious, did they give you a sale price on it? I'm not a fan of leasing but that sounds like a screaming deal.

Selling price on the sheet she gave us is $46,993.77 with $4,500 in "total rebates." The sheet doesn't have much other info such as the money factor or residual they are using. For the other diesel she quoted us which was also pretty basic, selling price is $52,525.00, which accounts for some of the difference but clearly not all of it. I didn't want to question it too much because I was kind of in shock, "gift horse in the mouth" and all that

[Thunder22]

there's no way to tell if it's a good deal without knowing:

1) residual
2) money factor
3) sticker price
4) selling price
5) sales tax in or out?
6) destination


Other than tax, title, reg, first month and security NEVER put any money down on a lease. It's a waste of money and all it's doing is artificially lowering your monthly by paying it up front (sort of like buying down the points on mortgage but much worse).

If you can get that info we'll be in a better position to help.

Good luck!

[mtech8]

Originally Posted by gresch

Other than tax, title, reg, first month and security NEVER put any money down on a lease.

Gresch is absolutely right.

But if you have some extra cash just sitting in the bank. Consider MSD (multiple security deposits), they act like money down and helps lower your payments, but you get it all back at the end of the lease. Better than just keeping your money in the bank.

If you can combine that with the current offer, you'll have a lower payment. Not a lot of dealers let the customer's know about this.

As far as the rest of the details (ie: residual, money factor, etc). You probably don't need to know it if you are strictly planning on leasing the vehicle and don't intend to keep it. $500 payment is a great price.

Btw, are you BMW CCA member for over a year? You get that rebate too.

[oddly_calm]

Originally Posted by gresch

there's no way to tell if it's a good deal without knowing:

1) residual
2) money factor
3) sticker price
4) selling price
5) sales tax in or out?
6) destination


Other than tax, title, reg, first month and security NEVER put any money down on a lease. It's a waste of money and all it's doing is artificially lowering your monthly by paying it up front (sort of like buying down the points on mortgage but much worse).

If you can get that info we'll be in a better position to help.

Good luck!

Good points, thank you gresch. I think I mentioned it above but the $5000 covers all up front costs (tax, title, deposit, first month's payment). Selling price on the sheet is $46,993.77 and MSRP should be $52,025 including destination since it doesn't have any extras. I will call today and see if she will give me a break out of what makes up the $5000 exactly, since it obviously includes some petty cash for the dealer. I will also ask her about the money factor and residual although I have to assume they are favorable based on the monthly payment they came up with.

Originally Posted by mtech8

Gresch is absolutely right.

But if you have some extra cash just sitting in the bank. Consider MSD (multiple security deposits), they act like money down and helps lower your payments, but you get it all back at the end of the lease. Better than just keeping your money in the bank.

If you can combine that with the current offer, you'll have a lower payment. Not a lot of dealers let the customer's know about this.

As far as the rest of the details (ie: residual, money factor, etc). You probably don't need to know it if you are strictly planning on leasing the vehicle and don't intend to keep it. $500 payment is a great price.

Btw, are you BMW CCA member for over a year? You get that rebate too.

Very interesting about the MSD's, I had never heard of that. The payment as it stands is no problem, sounds like it's more of getting a breakdown of what they are asking for that matters. I was a CCA member for a couple of years but recently let it lapse. How much is that rebate, worth re-upping for?

So how about hearing from some diesel owners? A few "it's been an awesome car, rock solid reliable!" would go a long way to making this happen for me.

[Thunder22]

$5000 up front is probably about $2500 of "down payment profit" to the dealer... the salesperson can give you the lease breakdown sheet with all of the numbers on it, it's a application they use from BMWFS, takes them about 10 seconds to print out. If they won't give it to you, I would walk away.

Also,how many miles are on it? If it's over a certain amount (I don't know the limit these days) they have to sell it to you as a used car, so you might want to check into whether there are any implications of that.

[ICX5]

Would like to help you out with info, but new owner myself. So far 600 miles, lots of fun. Love the engine, a blast to drive. Mixed hwy and city, 25 mpg to date.

Cold starts? I'm going to find out... Twin Cities and Anchorage, probably not that far off in winter temps. I would hope after so many years of operating diesels in Germany and elsewhere in Europe, BMW has conquered diesel cold weather starts. Let us know what you decide.

[oddly_calm]

Originally Posted by gresch

$5000 up front is probably about $2500 of "down payment profit" to the dealer... the salesperson can give you the lease breakdown sheet with all of the numbers on it, it's a application they use from BMWFS, takes them about 10 seconds to print out. If they won't give it to you, I would walk away.

Also,how many miles are on it? If it's over a certain amount (I don't know the limit these days) they have to sell it to you as a used car, so you might want to check into whether there are any implications of that.

Good call, I will ask for the lease app. I can't imagine why they wouldn't give it to me since it's clear we're very interested in the car.

I believe when we hopped in for the first test drive it had 31 miles on it, now it has about 50 because we test drove it for a while and then had it overnight last night. I doubt that would be enough to qualify it as a used car, but I'm not positive about that.

[Thunder22]

Do the BMW diesels have a fuel warmer to help in cold starts and/or keep the diesel from gelling? or is it not an issue?