Let's talk Transmission Maintenance...

[MRV99]

I have a few quick comments. I know I don't post much but I have built my fair share of trans, diffs, and engines.

1) BMW new maintenance recommendations are based on a few factors. Govt pressure to reduce waste, BMW paid maintenance...

2) A CEO of a global manufacturing companies made a comment to me and my family while vacationing together. "If we build them to last like we used to we would run out of customers to sell our products to and our stock holders will not have that" This is a direct quote so I will not argue it. Believe me this company used to build items that would last a good 20-30 years but not anymore.

3) All mechanical parts wear with use and all fluids no matter how synthetic they are made break down. I have never taken apart a transmission or diff that does not have some metal shavings or wear that has occurred. If you think that ZF makes transmissions which are sooooo superior that they never need fluid change or better yet 100k changes well then they should never have a problem going out of business. I will bet that any trans will show wear even at 15k miles. I have had many conversations with techs outside the BMW shop and the ones that have been doing this for 15 years will say BMW new maintenance schedule is for car turn over and does cause the cars to prematurely fail.


Last and not least. Globalization has caused manufactures to build an item just good enough to survive and not last. Hahaha who ever heard of a plastic oil pan.....

[JCL]

Originally Posted by MRV99

Hahaha who ever heard of a plastic oil pan.....

Expect to see lots more plastic oil pans. They have been used successfully on truck engines, and are being developed now by many suppliers. Plastic intake manifolds paved the way. May be a while until we see another full plastic engine block... Just to add fuel to the fire, the supplier of the pan in the photo is reportedly integrating a lifetime oil filter. That should go over well.

[DSE]

I generally follow the "old school" maintenance schedule of Mike Miller of BMW CCA. He describes BMW automatic transmissions as the "bane of my existence."

For older automatic transmissions (i.e., before there was a "lifetime" or 100,000 change interval), he recommends Red Line ATF changes every 30,000 miles, or every 15,000 miles with regular ATF fluid.

For newer transmissions (which applies to all X70s), he advocates changing the auto transmission filter and fluid every 60,000 miles, using BMW's proprietary ATF.

If you are A BMW CCA member, email him for a free copy of his old school maintenance schedule. It is a very interesting and a fun read, and there is more discussion on this issue. (If you are not a member, you should be).

[FSETH]

Originally Posted by DSE

I generally follow the "old school" maintenance schedule of Mike Miller of BMW CCA. He describes BMW automatic transmissions as the "bane of my existence."

For older automatic transmissions (i.e., before there was a "lifetime" or 100,000 chnage interval), he recommends Red Line ATF changes every 30,000 miles, or every 15,000 miles with regular ATF fluid.

For newer transmissions (which applies to all X70s), he advocates changing the auto transmission filter and fluid every 60,000 miles.

If you are A BMW CCA member, email him for a copy of his old school maintenance schedule. It is a very interesting and a fun read. (If you are not a member, you should be).

I was wondering what his opinion was on this. I am a member, but have yet to e-mail him for the service schedule.

[genew]

Originally Posted by FSETH

I was wondering what his opinion was on this. I am a member, but have yet to e-mail him for the service schedule.

I believe I have read that Mike agrees with JCL..He has seen many transmissions fail after a fluid change that were OK prior. I don't have a link but recall reading that.
Gene

[Lambeau]

175,000 miles on my transmission and towed a 5,000# camper 280 miles this past weekend with no issues. Performed the filter and fluid change at 100,000 miles and just a fluid change at 174,000 miles. Don't believe the folks here that say changing filter/fluid will do harm. They probably own shares in BMW and desire as many trans failures as possible. I also never had the transfer case re-programmed after I changed that fluid 75,000 miles ago and haven't had an issue.

[TiminIndy]

I can't believe I just read this entire thread! I still own an `06 E53 3.0, but plan to get an `11 E70 35i eventually (considering offering on one I test drove last week w/ 77K miles). I've done this procedure on my E53, so I thought I would look into the parts and procedures for the ZF 8 speed. The procedure is about the same, other than the ZF has the filter integrated into a plastic pan!


I've read different opinions on using the ZF Lifeguard 8 vs. other fluids that meet spec. I saw the long list of cars that use the ZF 8 so I decided to look at what FCA was recommending for the `12 Charger. I came across something on the Charger forum for QuantumBlue ZF 8 fluid, from BND Automotive. Their rep swears up and down that it is better than the Lifeguard for this application - and cheaper (looks like it was $14.95/qt in 2014). I haven't seen anyone mention the Quantum Blue on here, so I thought I would mention it and see if anyone has used it or has an opinion.


Post from BND rep on Charger forum:

8 speed transmission fluid replacement........ - Dodge Charger Forums

Windy testimonial from BND site:

QuantumBlue Products « BND Automotive

The list of cars using variants of the ZF 8HP is rather long:

ZF 8HP45 (a separate 845RE is for V6 Chryslers): BMW 1 Series (F20), BMW 2 Series M235i (F22), BMW 3 Series (F30), BMW 5 Series (F10/F11), BMW X3 (F25), BMW X4 (F26), BMW X5 35i (E70), BMW X5 (F15), BMW X6 (F16), Chrysler 300 V6, Chrysler 300 C, Dodge Charger V6, RAM 1500 V6 (2013- ), Jaguar XE, Lancia Thema V6, Volkswagen Amarok

Full list of all w/ ZF 8HP variants (how many of these are recommending ATF that costs $22 a liter?):

Alfa Romeo:
Alfa Romeo Giulia
Alfa Romeo Stelvio
Alpina:
Alpina D3
Alpina D4
Alpina B3
Alpina B4
Alpina XD3
Alpina D5
Alpina B5
Alpina B6
Alpina B7
Aston Martin:
Aston Martin Vanquish
Aston Martin Rapide
Aston Martin V8 Vantage (2019)
Aston Martin DB11[11]
Audi:
Audi A4 North American version
Audi A5 North American version
Audi A6
Audi A7
Audi A8
Audi Q5 8AT version
Audi Q7
Bentley:
Bentley Mulsanne (2010)
Bentley Continental GT
Bentley Continental Flying Spur (2013)
BMW:
BMW 1 Series
BMW 2 Series
BMW 3 Series
BMW 4 Series
BMW 5 Series
BMW 5 GT
BMW 6 Series
BMW 7 series
BMW X1 (First Generation)
BMW X3
BMW X4
BMW X5
BMW X6
BMW Z4
Chrysler:
Chrysler 300 V6 (2012+ MY), V8 (2015+ MY)
3.6 (845RE)
5.7 (8HP70)
Dodge:
Dodge Challenger (2015+ MY)
3.6 (845RE)
5.7, 6.4 (8HP70)
6.2 (8HP90)
Dodge Charger
3.6, 2012+ MY, 845RE
V8 (2015+ MY; 5.7, 6.4 8HP70; 6.2 8HP90)
Dodge Durango (2014 MY+)
3.6 (845RE)
5.7 (8HP70)
Haval:
H9 (2018-)
Iveco:
Iveco Daily 2014-on
Jaguar:
F-Type
F-Pace
XE
XF (2012-)
XFR (2012-)
XJ
Jeep:
Jeep Grand Cherokee (WK2) (2014 MY+)
3.6 (845RE)
3.0, 5.7, 6.4 (8HP70)
6.2 Supercharged (8HP95)
Lamborghini:
Lamborghini Urus
Lancia:
Thema V6
Land Rover:
Discovery 4/LR4
Range Rover
Range Rover Sport
Maserati:
Maserati Ghibli III
Maserati Quattroporte
Maserati Levante
Ram Trucks:
Ram 1500 3.6 L V6 (2013 MY+)
Ram 1500 3.0 L V6 (2014 MY+)
Ram 1500 5.7L V8[26][27][28] (2013 MY+)
Rolls-Royce:
Rolls-Royce Ghost
Rolls-Royce Phantom (2013)
Rolls-Royce Wraith (2013)
Rolls-Royce Dawn
Rolls-Royce Phantom VIII
Volkswagen:
Volkswagen Amarok
Volkswagen Crafter and MAN TGE (2017+) (longitudinally mounted engine only)

Potential future vehicle uses:
Maserati GranTurismo
Maserati Alfieri

[ard]

Welcome!

Originally Posted by TiminIndy

for the ZF 8 speed.

You're looking at a 2011? That will be a ZF6, no?

Originally Posted by TiminIndy

other fluids that meet spec.

What "spec"? Is there a full and complete 'spec' which defines ZF6 or ZF8?


Or is this a case of ZF6 meets Spec xyz....and Other Fluid also meets xyz, hence these are equivalent fluids? That is a flawed, or maybe not fully supported, conclusion

Their rep swears up and down that it is better than the Lifeguard for this application

Im sure.

Reps do.

[Lambeau]

Originally Posted by MRV99

I have a few quick comments. I know I don't post much but I have built my fair share of trans, diffs, and engines.

1) BMW new maintenance recommendations are based on a few factors. Govt pressure to reduce waste, BMW paid maintenance...

2) A CEO of a global manufacturing companies made a comment to me and my family while vacationing together. "If we build them to last like we used to we would run out of customers to sell our products to and our stock holders will not have that" This is a direct quote so I will not argue it. Believe me this company used to build items that would last a good 20-30 years but not anymore.

3) All mechanical parts wear with use and all fluids no matter how synthetic they are made break down. I have never taken apart a transmission or diff that does not have some metal shavings or wear that has occurred. If you think that ZF makes transmissions which are sooooo superior that they never need fluid change or better yet 100k changes well then they should never have a problem going out of business. I will bet that any trans will show wear even at 15k miles. I have had many conversations with techs outside the BMW shop and the ones that have been doing this for 15 years will say BMW new maintenance schedule is for car turn over and does cause the cars to prematurely fail.


Last and not least. Globalization has caused manufactures to build an item just good enough to survive and not last. Hahaha who ever heard of a plastic oil pan.....

Fully agree MRV.

No matter how good a synthetic fluid is, it will pick up impurities that the filter may or may not eliminate while that fluid flows throughout the transmission. Whether it's a certified BMW mechanic at the dealership or BMW service manuals, they each have a vested interest in transmissions not lasting too long. Of course they are going to recommend practices that ensure money in the pockets of BMW board members, mechanics, dealership owners, transmission manufacturers or anyone involved in the process. If a transmission lasted for 500K miles, there would be fewer service calls that would negatively affect the income of many associated with BMW.

I would like to see one example of proof where a fluid/filter change negatively affected a transmission. I know if I was a service advisor or a BMW mechanic I would also suggest never changing fluid to ensure the continuation of business and income.

I just changed my trans fluid/filter at 100K miles and after putting on 1000 miles and even pulling a large trailer for 250 miles there was no doomsday scenario from changing the fluid/filter and "accepting a risk".

[ripp222]

Despite ZF looking to selling parts (everywhere) and service (they have service shops in some areas of the world), I find it interesting to see their perspective on oil change interval versus one of their customers (BMW).

"Depending on the driving style, ZF therefore recommends a transmission oil change every 80,000 to 120,000 km, or after 8 years at the latest".

80,000 km = 49,708 miles.

I've also uploaded my Blackstone results for reference, in case someone else has results to compare.